[16:18]  Blue Linden: but there are many many more groups that i have little familiarity with....many who are helping people in other languages
[16:18]  Blue Linden: yes, Help People for sure
[16:18]  Garn Conover: RC crashes too much :(
[16:18]  You: Ty Dimi
[16:19]  Dimitrio Lewis: :)
[16:19]  Garn Conover: so Blue whats the topid today?
[16:19]  Blue Linden: so we wanted to find a way to help them...to provide a type of support even if not as extensive as we provide the SL Mentors
[16:19]  Soap Clawtooth: I've started a group called 'un-mentors' for people who may be able to speak in more than one language.
[16:20]  Calyps0 Janus: Good Housekeeping seal of approval for smaller help groups
[16:20]  Blue Linden: and one of the things we're asked is typically for a way that they can promote themselves and be "validated" as good helpful people
[16:20]  Blue Linden: to differenciate themselves from groups that are perhaps not quite as reputable
[16:20]  Blue Linden: so what we're going to do is give them that seal, yes hehe
[16:20]  Blue Linden: the good simkeeping seal?
[16:20]  Trinity Coulter: or a salmon
[16:20]  Blue Linden: no...all salmon goes to blue
[16:21]  Trinity Coulter: lol
[16:21]  Taryn London: all lobster goes to Taryn.
[16:21]  Mastorian Kingsford: blue stamp of approval
[16:21]  Mastorian Kingsford: :-)
[16:21]  Nefertiti Nefarious: Careful __keeping Sela of Approval is TM by the Good housekeeping people.
[16:21]  Rails Bailey: would it be possible blue, for some of the mentor groups to adopt a sim
[16:21]  Blue Linden: one of the best ways to help these groups help people is to make them findable, so we're planning on making them visible on the website
[16:21]  Rails Bailey: sorry hub
[16:22]  Blue Linden: not sure that'll happen as quickly as we'd like but hopefully before the end of the year
[16:22]  Blue Linden: let me get to that in a sec Rails :)
[16:22]  Blue Linden: one of the concerns we have, as would others I'm sure, is that these are actually helpful groups
[16:23]  Garn Conover tickles Blue's foot w/ wing tip
[16:23]  Blue Linden: so we've got a list of criteria that groups will have to meet to be endorsed.
[16:23]  Carl Metropolitan: What are those criteria?
[16:23]  Blue Linden: okay Garn...I'll get to your point in a minute ;p
[16:23]  Blue Linden: hey Carl :)
[16:23]  Blue Linden: why I'm glad you asked!
[16:23]  Garn Conover: hehe
[16:24]  Blue Linden: The groups need to meet the PG standards deemed appropriate for all group names and charters of course....
[16:24]  Soap Clawtooth: A suggestion to these groups would be to set up a group role for people who found that said group was helpful and suggest the option to join the group if it WAS helpful, giving a rough idea of how helpful it was.
[16:24]  Blue Linden: they should also meet a minimum size.....3 people does make a group, but not one qualified for endorsemenmt
[16:25]  Blue Linden: that's a very interesting suggestion Soap!
[16:25]  Blue Linden: i can see it being gamed a bit, but it's worth hashing out
[16:25]  Kitty Barnett: it's gameable though :o
[16:25]  Soap Clawtooth: It would cut LL some slack,
[16:25]  Blue Linden: so another requirement would be that these groups adopt the Linden Tao of Volunteers as an overarching Charter....
[16:25]  Beverly Montgomery: ;/ im in the middle
[16:26]  Blue Linden: namely that they aren't in direct conflict with it's principles
[16:26]  Carl Metropolitan: No--that's a big problem.
[16:26]  Nefertiti Nefarious: Um ... with the addition of mentoring groups, is there any plan for increasing the number of groups a person can join? I neeeeed my freebie fix!
[16:26]  Carl Metropolitan: Hi Beverly
[16:26]  Blue Linden: each group should have a well defined mission statement and a best practices document that governs their culture
[16:26]  Beverly Montgomery: hi guys
[16:26]  Blue Linden: haha Nef, that would be nice ;)
[16:26]  Trinity Coulter: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Tao_of_Volunteers
[16:27]  Blue Linden: different topic though...well do Social Networking again one of these days!
[16:27]  DaQbet Kish: its been discussed that these groups would not count against the 25 max?
[16:27]  Kitty Barnett: Everett did it last week too :o
[16:27]  Blue Linden: to be eligible for endorsement groups will be subjected to light oversight from the VTeam
[16:28]  Blue Linden: the groups will have entry requirements and not simply be open groups
[16:28]  Blue Linden: and there needs to be a leadership structire in place
[16:28]  Carl Metropolitan: Does VTeam mean Lindens running the VTeam or volunteers.
[16:28]  Blue Linden: it sounds like a lot, but much of it is the nature of any good and organized group and will already be in place
[16:28]  Blue Linden: VTeam meaning the Lindens, not residents
[16:28]  Carl Metropolitan: What kind of "light oversight"?
[16:29]  Blue Linden: primarily, oversight will be related to communication
[16:30]  Blue Linden: say the group has some members who are suspended for harassment and it's reported directly to lindens
[16:30]  Blue Linden: we'd want to bring that up in as general a ways possible to suggest that a group should reinforce it's best practices
[16:31]  Blue Linden: if it's decided that there is an inordinate amount of trouble coming from a particular group, we'd have to reconsider the endorsement
[16:31]  Blue Linden: which isn't to say that a group is fully responsible for each and every member
[16:31]  Soap Clawtooth: I think perhaps every group should seek at least one official mentor to be in it to help create guidelines that are to the best interest of Linden Labs
[16:31]  Blue Linden: clearly we've had a couple of bad apples in the SL Volunteer program over the years, but haven't thrown the baby out with the bathwater hehe
[16:32]  Blue Linden: well Soap I'd worry that this might be resented by some groups
[16:32]  Blue Linden: what do you guys think....a mentor acting as communicatino fascilitator
[16:32]  Blue Linden: with no actual power over the groups
[16:32]  Rails Bailey: and would the group pick the mentor or would one be assigned
[16:32]  Calyps0 Janus: Within each group? thumbs down
[16:32]  Nefertiti Nefarious: Perhaps START with a mentor/adviser to get the group's goals clarified, then turn them loose
[16:32]  Garn Conover: well most groups have 1 mentor @ least already i believe
[16:32]  Kitty Barnett: I'd think help groups would be more comfy with a Linden than another resident.....
[16:33]  Carl Metropolitan: It sounds fine to me since based on what I've heard so far, NCI will be opting out of this.
[16:33]  Blue Linden: Lindens won't necessarily have the time to help groups get ramped up the way a mentor might
[16:33]  Trinity Coulter: I wouldn't think a Mentor would be necessary, but I saw you had thought of group representatives
[16:33]  Taryn London: Yeah, I'd think most would want to deal directly with LL
[16:33]  Soap Clawtooth: It just seems Mentors are the best people to be able to point a group in the right direction if something goes wrong without necessarily requiring linden involvement each time
[16:33]  Blue Linden: but again, it's always best to consider the posibility of abuse of the position before commiting
[16:33]  Brett Dumont: I think mentor (s) should already be in that group...and they have to recommend
[16:33]  Soap Clawtooth: a 'liaison' if you will.
[16:33]  Taryn London: A rep would be good, not necessarily a mentor
[16:34]  Blue Linden: the grup is required to have a leadership team or structure, so is that enough?
[16:34]  Blue Linden: if they are the ones communicating directly with the Lindens?
[16:34]  Trinity Coulter: it might be nice to do it the other direction tho, possibly
[16:34]  Carl Metropolitan: That would work better.
[16:34]  Nefertiti Nefarious: One problem with groups is that they cna have a hard time getting their goals stated, which leads ot them falling apart real soon.
[16:34]  Trinity Coulter: where Mentors are encouraged to join those groups and support them
[16:34]  Carl Metropolitan: I've got serious issues with what you outlined though.
[16:34]  DaQbet Kish: but then arnt you giving extended powers to a Mentor?
[16:35]  Blue Linden: true Neferiti
[16:35]  Carl Metropolitan: 1) This is being presented as a done deal without consulting with any of the groups that might or might not join.
[16:35]  Rails Bailey: Mentors dont need power
[16:35]  Soap Clawtooth: Maybe a knowledgebase article for people wishing to look into starting a volunteer group could be created to point all this help and get people satrted on the right path.
[16:35]  Blue Linden: no power is bestowed upon mentor reps in this scenario, I'm assuming
[16:35]  Kitty Barnett: if it has to be a mentor... at least let the group nominate a mentor of their choice instead of someone arbitrary who may or may not be biased against the group
[16:36]  Carl Metropolitan: 2) Adopting the Tao of Volunteers: It is not LL's responsiblity to deal with discipline in the group as in the "Consequences of Not Following Tao"
[16:36]  Blue Linden: right Carl, LL would not be responsible for upholding the Tao
[16:36]  Nefertiti Nefarious: I'm thinking "mentor" in the classic sense: someone with the sense ot recognize who needs help and who doesn't, for starters.
[16:36]  Soap Clawtooth: Agree with Nefertiti.
[16:36]  Blue Linden: we would merely be saying "this group has a set of basic principles not in conflict with our own"
[16:37]  Carl Metropolitan: I would suggest since you are already requiring a charter/best practices document, that LL just review that to see if it is acceptible.
[16:37]  Blue Linden: okay, let me twist the suggestion a bit
[16:37]  Carl Metropolitan: As for a mentor requirement. Why leave it up to the group to appoint an officer to be the VTeam liason
[16:37]  Blue Linden: what about a mentor or a team of mentors that interface with ALL the endorsed groups to help communication or guidance in running a group
[16:38]  Carl Metropolitan: Rather than imposing a mentor on them
[16:38]  Soap Clawtooth: perhaps the knowledgebase article could include a charter/best practices section from LL along with a list of reuptable groups already active for people to research.
[16:38]  Blue Linden: I do believe that some groups would really find the idea of a mentor like babysitting....
[16:38]  Soap Clawtooth: reputable*
[16:38]  Mastorian Kingsford: lol seems alota mentor bias here i thought this was to make helpingplayers more the main agender?
[16:39]  Carl Metropolitan: A mentor coming and giving NCI "guidance in running a group" will be politely shown the door.
[16:39]  Blue Linden: but should it be an option to have SL Mentor available to help them?
[16:39]  Brett Dumont: Mentor should be in the group to observe, prior to invitation
[16:39]  Blue Linden: hehe Carl :)
[16:39]  Trinity Coulter: It might be nice for Mentors to have an initiative that is focused on supporting groups, but that feels more like something Mentors should do, rather than a requirement upon outside groups to accept
[16:39]  Garn Conover: can i have a snack 1st Carl?
[16:39]  Soap Clawtooth: I think it should be an option, yes. But i think its one people will commonly take if they are serious about their group, blue.
[16:39]  Carl Metropolitan: I'm serious. I'm not wanting to put NCI under the authority of some self-elected group of Mentors
[16:39]  Dimitrio Lewis: My concern there is liability, Blue. If LL makes a mistake while assisting a group, they accept responsibility for the mistake. But if a mentor makes a mistake or misunderstands something while representing a group, they're liable for screwing things up.
[16:39]  You: An option but making it a requirment would be harsh
[16:39]  Rails Bailey: mentor police, I dont think so
[16:39]  Monalisa Robbiani: in some help places SL mentors arent even allowed... the frankfurt community gateway doens't allow SL mentors to enter their newbie area at all
[16:40]  Calyps0 Janus: Mentored Help Groups and UnMentored Help Groups..up to the group to choose
[16:40]  Blue Linden: well Carl, it's not something that's being suggested in our proposal, just brought up here today
[16:40]  DaQbet Kish: and really wouldnt there already be Mentors in some of the existing help groups
[16:40]  Blue Linden: that could be the case Dimi
[16:40]  Beverly Montgomery: we mentor alot of people, in alot of ways, without toting the mentor statis/tag, mentors bring people to us, to *mentor* so to say
[16:40]  Carl Metropolitan: I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thought this was a set of guidelines LL had decided on; not a proposeal for discussion.
[16:40]  Carl Metropolitan: I retract my earlier comment in that case.
[16:40]  Kitty Barnett: if there's a weekly office hour only for representative of a help group, wouldn't that be most of the "Linden time" they'd need instead of a "resident liason"?
[16:41]  Trinity Coulter: i think the idea of reps from each group, which i think you were considering anyway, might be the most fair suggestion
[16:41]  Blue Linden: it's perhaps not the worst suggestion if you're a relatively young group without the experience of some mentors
[16:41]  Soap Clawtooth: As rails pointed out, mentors aren't police and shouldn' have to police these groups, but I do think that 'advice' giving might be a good idea.
[16:41]  Blue Linden: but at the same time, a well established and proven group might see it as an imposition
[16:41]  Brett Dumont: yes
[16:41]  Trinity Coulter: yes, I think its a good idea Soap, maybe it should be something the Mentors group could discuss and consider working on
[16:41]  Soap Clawtooth: Not if it was optional.
[16:42]  Garn Conover: yes there are a lot of maller groups that would prbly flurish w/ a little umph
[16:42]  Blue Linden: and it's certainly not a task just anyone would be suited to
[16:42]  Carl Metropolitan: Mentor advice team as an option is a good idea.
[16:42]  Carl Metropolitan: Mentor police is a very bad one
[16:42]  Calyps0 Janus: True. Groups are like States,,resisting national govt interference
[16:42]  Blue Linden: so perhaps "support for young groups" should be considered, as an option at best
[16:42]  Soap Clawtooth: Leave it to the group if they want to include a mentor, but as i say if they are serious about their group they will want to take on good working knowledge.
[16:42]  Soap Clawtooth: Which usually comes from a mentor.
[16:42]  Blue Linden: and yes, I expect there will be no endorsement of any groups related to policing
[16:43]  Carl Metropolitan: Soap? Are you serious?
[16:43]  Blue Linden: as with the SL Mentors, vigilanteism is a worst case scenario
[16:43]  Blue Linden: we won't accept it
[16:43]  Trinity Coulter: I think MANY groups have very experienced people with as much or more knowledge than many Mentors
[16:43]  Brett Dumont: why would we want "young groups"....don't we want proven groups?
[16:43]  Soap Clawtooth: It's about whether ther person startig the group is totally sure how to execute going about it
[16:43]  Soap Clawtooth: taking on advice on how to deal with stuff is never a bad idea.
[16:44]  Beverly Montgomery: exactly trinity
[16:44]  Blue Linden: yes Brett, but of those groups, some may not have the full experience of, say, SL Mentors' best and brightest
[16:44]  Soap Clawtooth: I agree trinity
[16:44]  Trinity Coulter: maybe the groups could have a amount of time they have existed as another requirement for endorsement
[16:44]  Carl Metropolitan: Beverly--how many people on NCI's BoD are members of the Mentors?
[16:44]  Blue Linden: and yes Trin that's very true as well
[16:44]  Carl Metropolitan: Do you recall?
[16:44]  Calyps0 Janus: Next item on this agenda?
[16:44]  Trinity Coulter: and maybe Mentors or other groups could sponsor "growth programs" to help newer groups get going
[16:44]  Beverly Montgomery: at least 4
[16:45]  PulseBurst Flow: What is the problem that this endorsement proposal is designed to solve? Are there rampant disreputable groups offering help to people now?
[16:45]  Beverly Montgomery: im not totally sure, but at least 4, 1 i know left the mentors, did not aprove of how it was run
[16:45]  Garn Conover: let me see
[16:45]  Blue Linden: so let's wrap up this subtopic.....Mentors as liaisons or helpers is questionable, lots of facets to the problem and a mixed response here
[16:45]  Blue Linden: what about other aspects of our plan as it exists now...anything to take issue with or add to?
[16:46]  Blue Linden: group size must be >25 let's say
[16:46]  Soap Clawtooth: I vote for a good knowledgebase article as a starter uide.
[16:46]  Blue Linden: is a minimum size acceptable?
[16:46]  Soap Clawtooth: guide*
[16:46]  Carl Metropolitan: Here's a counter-proposal. Groups appoint a representative. Those representatives meet monthly with a Linden (say you).
[16:46]  DaQbet Kish: what about time in existance?
[16:46]  Calyps0 Janus: Suggested minimum size?
[16:46]  Blue Linden: we haven't said anything about minimum group age either
[16:46]  Blue Linden: right DaQ
[16:46]  Carl Metropolitan: No filitering and misunderstanding due to going through mentors.
[16:46]  You: I like Carl's idea
[16:46]  Rails Bailey: 25, three regulars and 22 that dont log in often, dangerous blue
[16:46]  Blue Linden: Carl, that's part of what we have proposed, yes hehe
[16:46]  Garn Conover: 6 carl plus 1 who left because they got annyed by the restrictions
[16:47]  Soap Clawtooth: Agreed, rails.
[16:47]  Trinity Coulter: i think size is a potential indicator of group maturity, i might suggest after a certain size, you look at what the group is doing to reach out to its membership, to ensure its not just a big inflated group
[16:47]  Blue Linden: so what about 100
[16:47]  Carl Metropolitan: Few will meet 100 members
[16:47]  Brett Dumont: minimum Blue....but time is a major factor
[16:47]  Blue Linden: would that limit small language groups that are helping a particular community?
[16:47]  Dimitrio Lewis: on the other hand, 25 might be an indication of a mature group that's been in existance for six months and has carefully vetted each of its members
[16:47]  Soap Clawtooth: I would say 25 with 3 month age limit
[16:47]  Rails Bailey: same argument blue, devils advocate here, maybe u need to look at login times
[16:47]  Soap Clawtooth: Half of that of the official mentors but enough that they'll have knowledge if they're right for the task
[16:48]  Blue Linden: the SL mentors requires 6 months, should it be the same for endorsed groups?
[16:48]  Kitty Barnett: a group with 25 *active* members would be better than a group with 3 active and 97 dormant though... group size by itself doesn't tell much :o
[16:48]  Brett Dumont: yes
[16:48]  Dimitrio Lewis: yes
[16:48]  Trinity Coulter: well, rather than logins, maybe effectiveness, like a resume of accomplishments
[16:48]  Blue Linden: okay..."active" that's a tough one to prove
[16:48]  Blue Linden: we have trouble doing it with SL Mentors
[16:48]  Blue Linden: they may appear active inworld, but that doesn't mean they're helping anyone
[16:48]  Soap Clawtooth: For example im coming up on 2 months, i think and my knowledge is probably equal to mentor knowledge because im active quite alot.
[16:49]  Trinity Coulter: its more of an admin headache for LL to check a lot of login times, but it would be work in itself to prepare a resume of accomplishments, even if its all fake
[16:49]  Blue Linden: perhaps that's another topic altogether hehe....how to track participation in a group
[16:49]  Brett Dumont: we are talking about the group Soap...not the individual
[16:49]  Calyps0 Janus: Gehelp those wanting their help.ez, quite a few requirements before a group receives endorsement to
[16:49]  Soap Clawtooth: If i see a question i can answer, i will.
[16:49]  Rails Bailey: if people want a seal of approval blue, giving it on a plate devalues it
[16:49]  Calyps0 Janus: UGH!
[16:49]  Dimitrio Lewis: Some inworld businesses have timeclocks to keep track of their employee hours, so something may be possible with scripting.
[16:49]  Blue Linden: agreed Rails
[16:49]  Carl Metropolitan: What will the benifits of group endorsement be for the groups?
[16:50]  Blue Linden: ah Carl, I think you missed that part
[16:50]  Trinity Coulter: well i don't feel that these groups want to consent to a lot of tracking
[16:50]  Blue Linden: primarily to help them promote themselves
[16:50]  Guts Aeon accepted your inventory offer.
[16:50]  Trinity Coulter: like the timeclocks, i mean
[16:50]  Blue Linden: via the website on a page much like Showcase
[16:50]  Rails Bailey: and if u dont rack, u get rougue elements who want approval and do nothing else
[16:50]  Carl Metropolitan: I'm very sorry. I had to take off early from work to get here when I did.
[16:50]  Blue Linden: Trinity...then we're getting too close to "unpaid employee" for my taste
[16:50]  Brett Dumont: if they are already successful, why do they need to be promoted?
[16:50]  Blue Linden: I would hate to anger the legal eagles ;)
[16:50]  Soap Clawtooth: lol.
[16:51]  Carl Metropolitan: Okay--link or a LL website.
[16:51]  Trinity Coulter: with what Blue?
[16:51]  Carl Metropolitan: Link on a LL website.
[16:51]  Blue Linden: appreciated Carl
[16:51]  Blue Linden: Trin, the idea of timeclocks would bother me too
[16:51]  Trinity Coulter: oh yes, i agree
[16:51]  Carl Metropolitan: What else besides that?
[16:51]  Blue Linden: i think you're right other groups would hate that
[16:51]  Dimitrio Lewis: was just noting that tracking is possible
[16:52]  Rails Bailey: everything on SL is tracked, at server level
[16:52]  Blue Linden: in addition to the site, we'd want to keep a list of groups in the program that's easily referenced for people concerned with a group that they are not sure about
[16:52]  Soap Clawtooth: Wiki is a good place for that.
[16:52]  Blue Linden: so that if someone claims endorsed status...claims to meet LL's minimum requirements...they can quickly confirm it
[16:52]  Garn Conover: sounds like BBB (Better Business Bureau)
[16:53]  Trinity Coulter: one thing i might suggest is an in-world seal, that links people to the Endorsement showcase page, that these groups can drop at their land to show they are Endorsed... it could be scripted and updatable and a way to connect group efforts together in SL
[16:53]  Garn Conover: is hte wiki back yet?
[16:53]  Blue Linden: yes, a wiki page is good....perhaps something that can be referenced ffrom kiosk in new user areas, etc
[16:53]  Blue Linden: hehe. yes Garn, only without the business part
[16:53]  Kitty Barnett: what about an announcement time between applying and actual endorsement? if someone had legitimate concerns about a group, they could bring them up and have to substantiate them?... you could have lower qualifications and the concern with find out whether they're active will come through objections
[16:53]  Dimitrio Lewis: wiki would be a good use for html on a prim
[16:53]  Trinity Coulter: yes, and placed at Infohubs
[16:54]  Blue Linden: and likely the option of setting up near an info hub yes :)
[16:54]  Carl Metropolitan: Do the endorsed groups get any sort of tangible benifits like: space at InfoHubs, tier discounts,
[16:54]  Carl Metropolitan: Ah--you just answered part of that.
[16:54]  Blue Linden: i'm hoping to build out new hubs in the not so distant future, as we talked about last meeting
[16:54]  Blue Linden: yeah, that's a very tangible kind of benefit to endorsement, but only for some
[16:54]  Rails Bailey: great, cos some of the mainland is barren
[16:54]  Blue Linden: there wouldn't be significant space available at every hub
[16:55]  Soap Clawtooth: perhaps..and im going out on a limb here...as more promotion support when this is setup, you could get a vid-tutorial of 'finding help in world' going as well?
[16:55]  Blue Linden: and even then, we've got only so many hubs
[16:55]  Blue Linden: which is another thing I wanted to get feedback from you guys on
[16:55]  Soap Clawtooth: Folk pay alot of attention to the vid-tuts.
[16:55]  Blue Linden: how would that space be designated?
[16:55]  Blue Linden: by lotto, like luna/busy bens?
[16:55]  Garn Conover: Torley did something like that and ended up getting lost @ one of our plaza's haha
[16:55]  Trinity Coulter: Blue, I would suggest that if you do that its rotated out and that upcoming groups in the rotation know about it ahead of time so they can prepare their area off-site ahead of time and just drop it in
[16:55]  Blue Linden: or would there be a steep set of requirements to earning a permanent space?
[16:55]  Soap Clawtooth: lol.
[16:55]  Soap Clawtooth: garn.
[16:55]  Lucifer Baphomet gave you Snapshot_453.
[16:55]  Blue Linden: right....agreed Trin
[16:55]  Garn Conover: poor guy
[16:56]  Blue Linden: haha garn, really
[16:56]  Trinity Coulter: much more seamless that way
[16:56]  Kitty Barnett: permanent space might mean it's left to fend for itself and not updated since there's no need?
[16:56]  Trinity Coulter: yes
[16:56]  Garn Conover: yea one on sandboxes :)
[16:56]  Carl Metropolitan: Or space can be self-updating from central servers.
[16:56]  Trinity Coulter: if its clear its always impermanent it will be more incentive to maintain it
[16:56]  Rails Bailey: rotating hubs, local business are going to hate that
[16:56]  Soap Clawtooth: Couldn't you add it a 1) knowledgebase article and 2) a guide on the support page?
[16:56]  Blue Linden: what if we were to say "we're going to keep making more hubs....3 a quarter, but to get a space there you have to prove you're far and away one of the top help groups"
[16:57]  Blue Linden: what would the requirements be
[16:57]  Yeti Bing: set of requirements to earning a permanent space is much better than a lotto
[16:57]  Blue Linden: longest time in SL? largest membership? best uniforms?
[16:57]  Trinity Coulter: well proof of how many you help
[16:57]  Garn Conover: be intersting to know how many help groups their actually are lol
[16:57]  Trinity Coulter: biggest blt sandwiches?
[16:57]  Soap Clawtooth: Longest time in SL & largest membership.
[16:57]  Blue Linden: if someone can come up with that, we'll consider applying it to the SL Mentors Trin ;)
[16:58]  Rails Bailey: devils advocate again, and what if war starts out between competing groups, more problems, not less
[16:58]  Dimitrio Lewis: A way of measuring reputation would be good, but that could be gamed
[16:58]  Soap Clawtooth: But with no anymosity to other smaller groups hanging around in those places.
[16:58]  Carl Metropolitan: We will make good uniforms if needed.
[16:58]  Blue Linden: most small unmarked salmon in a plain envelope left under blue's desk
[16:58]  Kitty Barnett: lol
[16:58]  Trinity Coulter: LOL
[16:58]  Brett Dumont: that's it....end of discussion
[16:58]  Garn Conover: Carl do i HAAAAVVEE TOOOO!
[16:58]  Trinity Coulter: if its unmarked... how do you know?
[16:58]  Blue Linden: Hmmm rails....but competition is a good thing primarily
[16:58]  Garn Conover: hehe
[16:58]  Blue Linden: wouldn't it be a war of who's the most helpful and nice?
[16:59]  Carl Metropolitan: I have a suggestion for the spaces in the Hubs. Charge tier for them. That will weed out some non-serious something-for-nothing applicants.
[16:59]  Dimitrio Lewis: competing groups isn't neccessarily a bad idea, or there are benefits for example, for most people helped in a month *musing*
[16:59]  Blue Linden: good point Carl
[16:59]  Rails Bailey: blue I can take u to a sim where heavy handed tactics have reduced the popularity
[16:59]  Blue Linden: oh yah?
[16:59]  Yeti Bing: [16:58] Blue Linden: wouldn't it be a war of who's the most helpful and nice?" Isn't that a nice way of war?
[16:59]  Blue Linden: heavy handed help tactics?
[16:59]  Trinity Coulter: actually Blue... PRIME spaces might be good for competition, but lesser spaces might be better to just rotate among all
[16:59]  Doctor Gascoigne: this is a giant issue
[16:59]  Rails Bailey: yep
[16:59]  Brett Dumont: agree Doc
[16:59]  Doctor Gascoigne: surely its going to take more than a while to work out the details
[16:59]  Blue Linden: that could be the case too Trin....
[17:00]  Trinity Coulter: but they need to be in easy to understand and report metrics
[17:00]  Calyps0 Janus: thinks this entire topic just opens up LL to more controversy, even tho the goal is honorable.
[17:00]  Dimitrio Lewis: ooh, most helpful group of the month gets the prime spot in addition to their normal parcel?
[17:00]  Blue Linden: perhaps large central space for general help focused group
[17:00]  Rails Bailey: willing to talk about it but not here, its a sensiutive issue
[17:00]  Blue Linden: and smaller rotating spaces for language-centric groups
[17:00]  Brett Dumont: KISS formula (Keep it Simple, Stupid)
[17:00]  Blue Linden: haha yes Brett
[17:00]  Trinity Coulter: yes, group focus might be an easy way, but still wouldn't be clear measurement of performance
[17:01]  Blue Linden: very much like the way to always win a dogfight...the DGSS principle
[17:01]  Blue Linden: Don't Get Shot, Stupid
[17:01]  Brett Dumont: :)
[17:01]  Trinity Coulter: how about the LHGM one?
[17:01]  Rails Bailey: prefer SunTsu
[17:01]  Trinity Coulter: Lindens Have God Mod
[17:01]  Trinity Coulter: Mode
[17:01]  Rails Bailey: keep your enimies close
[17:01]  Blue Linden: hehe
[17:01]  Blue Linden: Sun Tsu for the win over many centuries
[17:01]  Please Stoop: blue linden why are you lagging the sim
[17:02]  Soap Clawtooth rolls eyes.
[17:02]  Beverly Montgomery: heh keep your friends close, and enemies closer XD
[17:02]  Blue Linden: so is there anything terribly obvious that we're missing that's going to ruin this idea?
[17:02]  Trinity Coulter: Lag must be a more powerful god than Lindens
[17:02]  Soap Clawtooth: Maybe people wishing to join this groups should undergo an orientation similar t that in place for Mentors by LL?
[17:02]  Blue Linden: or something we're missing that would make it a landslide victory?
[17:02]  Brett Dumont: Needs a lot of work I'd think
[17:02]  PulseBurst Flow: perception of FIC?
[17:03]  Blue Linden: Hmmm....that's always a bit of a problem, yes Pulse
[17:03]  Blue Linden: I think with consistency and transparency it's well mitigated though
[17:03]  DaQbet Kish: is there a time frame on this?
[17:03]  Rails Bailey: a few things dont sit well, it needs more disucssion blue, and a blueprint
[17:03]  Trinity Coulter: Blue... will these be permanent endorsements or will they have a time limit for re-application?
[17:03]  Blue Linden: they will not be permanent....hense the light Linden oversight
[17:03]  Blue Linden: re-application for endorsement makes sense
[17:04]  Kooky Jetaime listens
[17:04]  Rails Bailey: basic TQM blue
[17:04]  Kooky Jetaime: what I miss?
[17:04]  Carl Metropolitan: How often would that be required?
[17:04]  Rails Bailey: yearly licensing
[17:04]  Trinity Coulter: if you make the Blue Linden for CEO Help Group, is that an easy in?
[17:04]  Blue Linden: and we can revisit this again at another meeting too Rails....perhpas harass the other VTeam members at their office hours ;D
[17:04]  Amber Linden: :))
[17:04]  Blue Linden: hah! no pork spending by this politician ;p
[17:04]  Trinity Coulter: just salmon
[17:04]  Amber Linden: lol
[17:04]  Soap Clawtooth: lol.
[17:05]  Blue Linden: no-bid contracts for all blue-worship related groups
[17:05]  Trinity Coulter: lol
[17:05]  Rails Bailey: oooooooo bacon sandwich
[17:05]  Garn Conover waves paw to Amber
[17:05]  Trinity Coulter: Salmon Lettuce and Tomato
[17:05]  Amber Linden: Hiya Garn
[17:05]  Blue Linden: so it's 5 and I don't want anyone to miss Kate's awesome office hour if you're a regular there
[17:05]  Garn Conover: everything go good on the trip?
[17:05]  Blue Linden: but I'm happy to stick around a bit
[17:05]  Kooky Jetaime: Kates?
[17:05]  Amber Linden: no, but its over now...lol
[17:05]  Kooky Jetaime: Where Blue?
[17:05]  Carl Metropolitan: Have a look at that, Blue
[17:05]  Amber Linden: thanks for asking
[17:05]  Hulk Ah: hi peeps
[17:05]  Blue Linden: Thanks for coming everyone....per usual I'm in your debt for the excellent feedback
[17:06]  Carl Metropolitan: I'm sorry if I seemed so negative
[17:06]  Blue Linden: Kate's office is just to the NE of here :)
[17:06]  Kooky Jetaime: nevermind, found it
[17:06]  Miss Hera: hi
[17:06]  Garn Conover: well thats the good part :) u dont have tio repeat it that often
[17:06]  Kooky Jetaime: s her
[17:06]  Amber Linden: Awesome meeting everyone!
[17:06]  Blue Linden: Carl, constructive criticism is worth it's weight in salmon!
[17:06]  Carl Metropolitan: I've had a bad day and came in and thought you were "telling us how it was going to be" instead of asking for Input
[17:06]  Trinity Coulter: i guess not having the Consequences of Tao makes a big difference
[17:06]  Carl Metropolitan: Huge
[17:06]  Trinity Coulter: among other things
[17:06]  Garn Conover pets Carl w/ wing
[17:06]  Rails Bailey: any news on OIP blue, its future
[17:06]  Blue Linden: hehe....I really try never to do that Carl...it would be crazy what with all the great suggestions you guys have made in the past year
[17:07]  Kitty Barnett hopes this topic doesn't get a life of its own on the rumour mill again :o)
[17:07]  Blue Linden: if I haven't said it lately...and I know this might be too soon for you...
[17:07]  Blue Linden: I....I love you
[17:07]  Rails Bailey: oh it will
[17:07]  Blue Linden: there I said it
[17:07]  Trinity Coulter: awww
[17:07]  Taryn London: awwww :)
[17:07]  Garn Conover: Mrewp Mrewp! ^_^
[17:07]  Taryn London: We love you too
[17:07]  Amber Linden: :)
[17:07]  Trinity Coulter: if you marry a Linden can you change your last name?
[17:07]  Kitty Barnett: awwwww
[17:07]  Garn Conover: ok Blue gimmie Bewwy Wubbs! (click a nose) :D
[17:07]  MystiTool HUD 1.0.23: Entering chat range: Carl Metropolitan (1m)
[17:07]  Garn Conover: haha Trini
[17:07]  Beverly Montgomery: awww giggles
[17:07]  Rails Bailey: faints
[17:07]  Blue Linden: seriously though, I very much appreciate feedback on projects I work on and I know that sharing it around the office makes me a rockstar ;D
[17:08]  Kitty Barnett has that t-shirt :p
[17:08]  Trinity Coulter: me too!
[17:08]  Carl Metropolitan: Yes--someone read the transcript of the last meeting and posted to the forums that you were thinking about merging teen and main grids (sort of true--it is one option under consideration) and that the reaction here had been very positive (way far from true)
[17:08]  Beverly Montgomery: XD i was told they are not alowed to marrie ;/ pooor lindens
[17:08]  Kitty Barnett: nah ah! mine!
[17:08]  Blue Linden: being on so many community related projects, I'd be lost without the community
[17:08]  Trinity Coulter: MINE!
[17:08]  Kitty Barnett: :p
[17:08]  Blue Linden: yes, I'm afraid us Lindens don't actually exist
[17:08]  PulseBurst Flow: Rails, is there something going on with OIP?
[17:08]  Blue Linden: I was coded in 2005 for example, by Andrew
[17:08]  Rails Bailey: so would LL just quietly
[17:08]  Kitty Barnett: hehe
[17:08]  Dimitrio Lewis: bye all :)
[17:08]  Trinity Coulter: oh no
[17:08]  Blue Linden: take care Dimi
[17:08]  Kitty Barnett: I want Pony Linden back! *pouts* :(
[17:08]  You: Later Dimi
[17:08]  Trinity Coulter: me too
[17:09]  Garn Conover: Blue you exist :) Amber doesn't tho
[17:09]  Trinity Coulter: where is Scapegoat Linden
[17:09]  Soap Clawtooth: Pulse, various rumours in the mill concering OIP.
[17:09]  Carl Metropolitan: That's Robin's job
[17:09]  Amber Linden: *thinking hard about that!*
[17:09]  PulseBurst Flow: oh..have any links on that?
[17:09]  Trinity Coulter: with a little office and people go and complain there
[17:09]  Garn Conover: sorry Amber ur in godmode :)
[17:09]  Blue Linden: Brett, thanks for the notes! I'll touch base with you sometime this week
[17:09]  Amber Linden: oh...so I am
[17:09]  Blue Linden: if for some reason I forget, please harass me :)
[17:09]  Trinity Coulter: lol
[17:10]  Charlemagne Allen is Online
[17:10]  Rails Bailey: only if u take god mode off
[17:10]  Garn Conover: Rails he doesn't have it on
[17:10]  Blue Linden: oh, and i almost forgot I have a tiny chair to add to the tiny table.....
[17:10]  Brett Dumont: Great Blue...enjoyed the meeting....thanks
[17:10]  Kitty Barnett: awwwww!
[17:10]  Trinity Coulter: those are so neat Blue... Lisa showed me
[17:10]  Brett Dumont: :)
[17:10]  Beverly Montgomery: no he don't he is on radar


[17:10]  Trinity Coulter: sooooo tiny
[17:11]  Blue Linden: i dunno if you guys can see that...but holy cow it's tiny
[17:11]  Garn Conover: the blue brown one?
[17:11]  Rails Bailey: amber is on my radar too
[17:11]  Blue Linden: it's disgustingly small
[17:11]  Blue Linden: lol
[17:11]  Trinity Coulter: maybe you should put a copy of the big chair into the tiny chair
[17:11]  Taryn London: lol
[17:11]  Kitty Barnett: wrapped in a little box :)


[17:11]  Blue Linden: yes!
[17:11]  Brett Dumont: guys....as a lover of SL....thank you all for what you do!!!
[17:11]  Garn Conover: Amber was in GM but she jsut turned it off