Your Daily Dose of Land Bot! (Project Public Landbot, FWord Utorid, Landbot Merlin, and More!)

This was a group chat today the open enrollment group Project Public Land bot. I thought it was worth posting because it mentions a lot on the progress (or lack of progress) on the project. It also had an appearance from Landbot Merlin, the guy playing off of the infamous "LandBarron Merlins" name in order to sell $500usd land bots on ebay under the user name PresidentPerry. I have a lot of respect for several of the members in this group and hope the projects takes off but my gut feeling is that Fword is taking people for a paid ride or has gotten in over his head. This whole chat log felt to me as if she/he were seeking help on how to complete the project. I really reallyreally hope I'm proven wrong.

[10:33] Synthetic Dreamscape: hi everybody
[10:34] FWord Utorid: i'm working. it's also the holidays ;)
[10:34] FWord Utorid: there's some code on the blog
[10:34] Synthetic Dreamscape: hehe
[10:34] Synthetic Dreamscape: oh, point me
[10:34] FWord Utorid: http://landbotlobotomy.wordpress.com/
[10:35] Synthetic Dreamscape: i just built a bot over the last few days, actually.
[10:35] FWord Utorid: I hope to release a search application tomorrow
[10:35] Zoomie Voom: what does it do
[10:35] FWord Utorid: if you would like to contribute code to the project it would be great.
[10:35] Synthetic Dreamscape: mine is functional now
[10:35] Synthetic Dreamscape: not sure how efficient it is
[10:35] FWord Utorid: that is excellent
[10:35] Synthetic Dreamscape: as nothing in my objective domain has come up in my searches
[10:36] FWord Utorid: if you are interested in contributing to the project I am sure we can refine it
[10:36] Zoomie Voom: try settin a 16 forsale only to your user name for 1l it should come up then
[10:36] FWord Utorid: it's just been a busy month so it has been slow going
[10:36] Zoomie Voom: a 16 costs like 30 cents
[10:36] Synthetic Dreamscape: is anyone aware if LL chokes land search queries above a certain rate, if so how?
[10:36] FWord Utorid: yes
[10:36] Synthetic Dreamscape: or is all of that just done in the client
[10:36] FWord Utorid: LL will suspend you if they believe you are abusing land search
[10:36] FWord Utorid: but
[10:37] Synthetic Dreamscape: right now i am using a period of 5 seconds between queries
[10:37] FWord Utorid: I communicated with several lindens about this and they are aware and expect to see an increase in search activity
[10:37] FWord Utorid: 5 seconds is fine
[10:37] Synthetic Dreamscape: yea my best guess for when the client throttles the user is 3 seconds
[10:37] FWord Utorid: but once a lot of people are using landbots, which this project will facilitate, then there will probably be some latency, at least initially
[10:37] Synthetic Dreamscape: but i have no idea whether this is done on the server or not
[10:38] FWord Utorid: Yes it is done on the server
[10:38] Zoomie Voom: can you just run 5 of them and each hit it every 5 seconds and make them go in squence to hit it every second?
[10:38] FWord Utorid: yes, zoomie
[10:38] Synthetic Dreamscape: yes
[10:38] FWord Utorid: synth: if you search too frequently then you will be denied results for a period of time
[10:38] Synthetic Dreamscape: i had 2 bots running in one program a while ago
[10:39] Synthetic Dreamscape: but my question is more precise, what packet corresponds to that denial, or what libSL callback does it raise?
[10:39] FWord Utorid: if you would like to contribute to the project I think that is great. there are some tricks that will be required to increase efficiency and speed, it would be great if i could focus on those
[10:39] FWord Utorid: there isn't a packet for overloading the search
[10:40] FWord Utorid: you will simply get no results, or you may receive an alert notice
[10:40] Synthetic Dreamscape: when you run several land directory queries rapidly, you get a notice in the normal viewer
[10:40] FWord Utorid: alert notice ;)
[10:40] Zoomie Voom: i noticed that
[10:40] Synthetic Dreamscape: is there a way to get that in libSL?
[10:40] FWord Utorid: yes, there is
[10:40] FWord Utorid: look for alert in the callbacks
[10:41] Synthetic Dreamscape: okay
[10:41] Synthetic Dreamscape: could have it learn the threshold
[10:41] Zoomie Voom: you get a holla back
[10:41] FWord Utorid: are you considering sharing your code with the groups?
[10:41] FWord Utorid: group even?
[10:41] Synthetic Dreamscape: it's possible, but i'll need to be compensated for it, as i know that the project's being funded
[10:41] FWord Utorid: I am planning on getting the first product out the door actually tonight
[10:42] FWord Utorid: we won't require any additional code but it could be helpful.
[10:42] Synthetic Dreamscape: my expertise is in machine learning and algorithms, rather than networks and operating system stuff
[10:42] Synthetic Dreamscape: so i would be of better use developing additional fun features :D
[10:42] FWord Utorid: there's not much for landbots to learn really
[10:43] Sarah Nerd: Do you have a time frame as to when you will actually have a functioning bot thats able to compete with the one already in working order?
[10:43] Zoomie Voom: 10 to 25 years sarah
[10:43] FWord Utorid: lol
[10:43] Sarah Nerd: lol
[10:43] Synthetic Dreamscape: mine jumped on a parcel today very shortly after the ninjaland bot
[10:43] FWord Utorid: I have a bot that was functional, I just have to update it.
[10:43] FWord Utorid: And it's been a very busy month
[10:43] Synthetic Dreamscape: don't know the exact time as i haven't implemented a way of checking
[10:44] FWord Utorid: Merry Christmas by the way
[10:44] Synthetic Dreamscape: yes merry christmas to everyone
[10:44] LandBot Merlin: merry botmass
[10:44] Sarah Nerd: Ah landbot Merlin, the one selling the ebay bot
[10:44] Synthetic Dreamscape: i worry a bit though, about the consequences of releasing a free bot. i don't think they're as drastic as possible as i doubt most users know what a landbot is, but it's really quite hard to say what will come of it
[10:45] FWord Utorid: Yes, Synthetic... it would be excellent if you were willing to contribute, but there have already been two contributions of bot code that didn't function, which i've reviewed.
[10:45] Synthetic Dreamscape nods
[10:45] FWord Utorid: I don't know what the consequences will be really...
[10:45] FWord Utorid: No one can know
[10:45] FWord Utorid: but
[10:45] FWord Utorid: what will change is that other people will have one
[10:45] FWord Utorid: not just a select few.
[10:45] FWord Utorid: and the worst thing a landbot can do... is buy land... and waste the internet.
[10:46] FWord Utorid: So I don't think we will see landbots that give people hemmorhoids or kill puppies.
[10:46] Synthetic Dreamscape: a network of them searching with no constraints will just lead to general frustration and wasted bandwidth
[10:46] FWord Utorid: then perhaps the change that people are looking for will come
[10:47] Synthetic Dreamscape: i had some ideas to keep them behaving well, basically additional oversight that reduces the number of parcels the bot is interested in
[10:47] MyT Myoo: hey all merry christmass :)
[10:47] FWord Utorid: if you would like to communicate on those thoughts it would be great.
[10:47] FWord Utorid: if you look at the code on the blog
[10:47] FWord Utorid: it is designed to create specifications
[10:47] Synthetic Dreamscape: for example, it might be wise to implement a mandatory check for words like "green", "snowy", "sandy", "beach" in the description/name of the plot
[10:48] FWord Utorid: yeah but that is not always going to apply
[10:48] FWord Utorid: but it's a good long term thought
[10:48] FWord Utorid: initially we just need to get one out there
[10:48] Synthetic Dreamscape: i feel that rule #1 should be that the bot does as little harm as possible
[10:48] FWord Utorid: lol i've heard that somewhere before
[10:48] Synthetic Dreamscape: :)
[10:48] FWord Utorid: buying land is not harmful except to those who improperly price it unaware
[10:48] Synthetic Dreamscape: but really, it would also help prevent the bots picking up mispriced plots
[10:49] Synthetic Dreamscape: a simple exclusive flag for land type goes a long way
[10:49] FWord Utorid: this bot will be open source
[10:49] Zoomie Voom: if the so called 'ethical bot runners' wanted to 'not buy mistakes' they could easy code it to not search for land that is under 3per sq meters
[10:49] FWord Utorid: so coding in an exclusive flag wouldn't be beneficial
[10:49] FWord Utorid: it's a good thought
[10:49] FWord Utorid: and when the code is available we can talk about where to put it
[10:50] Synthetic Dreamscape: open source concerns me as well, basically as an extension of that
[10:50] FWord Utorid: the worst a landbot can do ... is buy land.
[10:50] FWord Utorid: it won't cause people in new mexico to grow three eyes.
[10:50] LandBot Merlin: and then poop on you
[10:51] FWord Utorid: if you could write a bot to poop on three eyed people in new mexico, i'd buy it
[10:51] Zoomie Voom: ill work on it
[10:51] Synthetic Dreamscape: on a more technical note, what is the LS object in your code?
[10:51] FWord Utorid: not that I have anything specifically against three eyed new mexico residents
[10:51] FWord Utorid: Land Search Specification
[10:51] FWord Utorid: both are described, but the whole source isn't there yet
[10:51] Sarah Nerd: Did using a name similar Landbarron Merlin help you sell?
[10:52] FWord Utorid: I am planning on dinking with the repository
[10:52] FWord Utorid: never dealt with google code before
[10:52] LandBot Merlin: yes:)
[10:52] Synthetic Dreamscape: it seems like the program up mainly just configures the search
[10:53] Synthetic Dreamscape: but then again i focused on getting mine running with prefined terms, two different angles
[10:53] FWord Utorid: that's correct
[10:53] Synthetic Dreamscape: *predefined
[10:53] FWord Utorid: if you read the blog the first objective is a search app
[10:53] FWord Utorid: there's an objectives page
[10:53] Synthetic Dreamscape: there are some problems in the future, for the actual purchasing part
[10:53] Synthetic Dreamscape: one of the big ones is how to translate the DirectoryParcel into the actual simulator parcel
[10:53] FWord Utorid: i have code to perform the purchases, but if you anticipate an issue, it would be great to know about it
[10:54] FWord Utorid: the last time I worked on this it was simply a matter of sending a packet
[10:54] FWord Utorid: oh that's not terribly difficult to accomplish
[10:54] FWord Utorid: there's a local id of the parcel in the simulator
[10:54] Synthetic Dreamscape: right now i'm doing it with a grid search in the simulator's parcel map
[10:54] FWord Utorid: that goes into the packet when you buy it
[10:54] FWord Utorid: yep
[10:55] Synthetic Dreamscape: which is really inefficient
[10:55] Synthetic Dreamscape: O(n^2)
[10:55] FWord Utorid: actually, that's one area where speed will be key
[10:55] Synthetic Dreamscape: feel there's gotta be a better way
[10:55] FWord Utorid: yeah there is
[10:55] FWord Utorid: i think you get the x y z of the parcel from the global position
[10:55] Synthetic Dreamscape: yea, i looked for functions to find the sim offset, but never came across one
[10:55] FWord Utorid: well, the grid is a grid
[10:56] Synthetic Dreamscape: yup
[10:56] Synthetic Dreamscape: and vector parcelPos = vector simOffset + vector LocalPos
[10:56] Synthetic Dreamscape: just haven't found a way to get that simulator offset
[10:56] FWord Utorid: lol. well, it's too bad you aren't willing to contribute code at this point... if i can just manage to clear my rl away i'll be able to do some more work and have a start on a christmas present
[10:57] Zoomie Voom gives fword a big wet sloppy hamburger for xmass
[10:57] FWord Utorid: I could spend the time telling you how to do it or I could work on the program for everyone
[10:57] FWord Utorid: thanks zoomie :D
[10:57] FWord Utorid: the code will be there when it's released and I stop talking to people
[10:58] FWord Utorid: after that it will just be incremental improvements or different forms to try to optimize
[10:59] Synthetic Dreamscape: well, i can certainly provide you with working code to search
[10:59] FWord Utorid: that's pretty much already published, but anything that enhances speed is appreciated
[10:59] FWord Utorid: let me hunt down a screenshot
[11:00] FWord Utorid: http://www40.websamba.com/fwordutorid/sekrit/step2.gif
[11:00] FWord Utorid: this is the old program
[11:00] FWord Utorid: actually it was two programs
[11:00] FWord Utorid: search and find
[11:01] FWord Utorid: notify and deploy
[11:01] FWord Utorid: I just stopped working on it because RL got in the way and I wasn't sure I wanted to put up with people complaining
[11:02] FWord Utorid: so i will probably spend some time tonight refining the first program
[11:02] FWord Utorid: the search component
[11:02] FWord Utorid: but it IS christmas so I am going to be egg nogging a little
[11:03] FWord Utorid: and a semi annoying problem is that libsecondlife changes all the time
[11:03] FWord Utorid: so this program will have a bunch of little things i have to fix to bring it up to date
[11:04] FWord Utorid: and I'm talking to myself instead of having a good christmas eve
[11:04] FWord Utorid: ttyl
[11:04] Harmony Deschanel: You too FWord .. Merry Christmas :)
[11:04] FWord Utorid: merry christmas