I've been talking off and on to a potential client, and they were interested in having a customized web client - but they didn't necessarily want the changes they wished licensed under the [w:GPL]. They wanted options. As it was, there was a discussion on the SLDev list regarding Electric Sheep Company's use of the [w:General Public License] (GPL) code through a commercial license to create a new browser. The practice of dual licensing - using the GPL in conjunction with a proprietary choice - is common practice, and really isn't a big deal.
So, how much does a commercial license cost? On Wednesday, 7 November 2007 I sent an email to licensing@lindenlab.com, requesting information on how much a license would cost - as indicated should be done on their licensing page. To date, there has been no response from [w:Linden Lab].I suppose the Electric Sheep Company doesn't have this problem; they already have a commercial license.
As a software developer and writer, this piqued my interest. After all, they are taking community development (read: not costing Linden Lab a dime) and licensing it at a cost which does not seem readily apparent. It could be $1 or $1,000,000. No one seems to know.
In discussion on and off the SLDev email list, I also found out about a contribution agreement that isn't linked to properly from the unofficial licensing FAQ. I dug it up through Google - and here is the licensing agreement I found:
Thank you for your interest in the Second Life open source project, including the wiki documentation and bug/feature-tracking project (collectively, the “Project”). The following agreement (this “Agreement”) describes the terms on which Linden Research, Inc. (“Linden Lab”) accepts contributions to the Project from you or those on whose behalf you act (collectively, “You”). All documentation, description, or other material that you contribute to the Project (the "Contribution") is submitted under these terms. If you do not agree to these terms, you should not submit material to the Project.
You and Linden Lab agree:
1. "Contribution" means any source code, object code, patch, tool, sample, graphic, specification, manual, documentation, email, comment, posting, communication or any other material posted or submitted by you to the Project.
2. You hereby assign to Linden Lab joint ownership in all worldwide common law and statutory rights associated with the copyrights, copyright applications and copyright registrations in Your Contribution, and to the extent allowable under applicable moral laws and copyright conventions, You agree never to assert against Linden Lab or its licensees or transferees any moral rights therein. You understand that (a) this agreement may be submitted by Linden Lab to register a copyright in Your Contribution, and (b) Linden Lab may exercise all rights as a copyright owner of Your Contribution, including enforcement against infringers. Both You and Linden Lab shall be able to do all such things in relation to Your Contribution as if each were respectively the sole owners of the copyright and all other relevant intellectual property rights therein. Neither party has any duty whatsoever to consult with, obtain the consent of, pay or render an accounting to the other party for any use or distribution of a Contribution or derivative work thereof.
3. You hereby grant to Linden Lab, and to any party who receives Your Contribution, a perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, worldwide, no-charge, royalty-free, license under any patents owned by or licensable by You at any time without payment to third parties, to make, have made, use, sell, offer to sell, import and otherwise transfer Your Contribution in whole or in part, alone or in combination with or included in any product, work or materials arising out of the Project, and to sublicense the foregoing rights to third parties through multiple tiers of sublicensees or other licensing mechanisms at Linden Lab's option.
4. Except as set forth above, You retain all right, title and interest in and to Your Contribution and may use Your contribution for Your own purposes. The assignment and licenses granted above are effective on the date You first submitted a Contribution to Linden Lab, even if such submissions preceded the date below.
5. You represent and warrant that You are legally entitled to grant the above assignment and licenses. If Your employer has rights to intellectual property that You create, You represent that You have received permission to make the Contribution on behalf of that employer, or that Your employer has waived such rights for the Contribution. You represent and warrant that the Contribution is Your original work of authorship, and to the best of Your knowledge, does not violate any other party's copyrights, trademarks, patents or other intellectual property rights, and that no other person claims, or has the right to claim, any right in any invention or patent related to the Contribution.
6. You understand that the decision to include the Contribution in any product or source repository is entirely that of Linden Lab, and this agreement does not guarantee that Your Contribution will be included in any product.
Note that I wasn't given that link on the email list. I dug it up myself, thinking that there might be different versions of the same document on the web. I'd think that project folks would point me in the right direction - but all I got was berated for asking questions and sent to the unofficial licensing FAQ. Then berated some more. All I wanted were answers. I would think that any developer would want those sort of answers, but given the tone of emails I received on the SLDev list as well as offlist (some people now automatically go to the trash can), this is not the case.
Effectively, I was told that I shouldn't look at a business model when considering working on [w:open source] code. Asking questions was not something that seemed to be encouraged - and I've seen my share of those sorts of discussions. I stayed away from the GPL vs. BSD-like license, but I also noted that the effect of Linden Lab's use of the GPL in conjunction with the contributor agreement and commercial licensing sold exclusively by Linden Lab is about the same as [w:shared source]. You can muck about with the legalities, but when you give people the rights to what you create at no cost so that they can resell it - well, it is what it is. At least the BSD-type licenses allow developers to create their own derivative works under different licenses. In essence, I don't see how a developer could make changes and do anything positive for themselves economically except build landbots (and you wonder why landbots are prevalent?).
I did get some responses from a Linden Lab representative on the list, but the answers were basically, 'We license on a case by case basis - we don't know...' and so forth. I'd think someone would have a clue. Its listed on their website for their licensing here. There is an unofficial FAQ here - but right at the very top, it says:
This FAQ is not official Linden Lab Policy
This is a resident maintained FAQ. It may contain inaccuracies, and does not reflect the opinion or policy of Linden Lab. This FAQ is not legal advice. If you require advice for your specific situation or use of the OpenSL software, you should consult a lawyer.
So what I asked for is what Official Linden Lab Policy is. 'Make-it-up-as-we-go-along' doesn't seem fair to me if I were to contribute - apparently others disagree. Still, I can't go to see a client and say, "Well, we could do that, but Linden Lab is mucking about and not telling anyone what they are doing". Their proper response would be, "Well, those Electric Sheep Company People did it", and I would quietly nod my head - and if they were serious about doing some browser related work, they just might go to the people who already have a commercial license. The Electric Sheep Company.
It is easy to speculate that the Electric Sheep Company got a special deal - but effectively negating any option others might have through not having information available seems like the creation of a market owned by Linden Lab and the Electric Sheep Company. Whatever the reasoning, the fact that the information is not available to people who may be considered competitors of the Electric Sheep Company or part of some exotic group that Linden Lab whispers information to does seem unfair. It is dangerously close to giving even Prok some credence when it comes to the concept of a 'Fetid Inner Core' - I won't agree with that, but if you read the facts, it is certainly hard to make an argument against it.
At the end of the day, this is what I believe:
- Every software developer chooses what projects they work on and what rights that they give away - and should do so without criticism.
- If developers agree to give up rights to their own work so that it can be resold by others, they should have a right to know how much the work is being resold for.
- That no companies should have a monopoly on a commercial license.
Now, no one has gotten back to me on commercial licensing costs. Not a soul. When I asked for clarification of licensing practices, I was told I was being repetitive. Of course, when you get an answer that is not relevant, you ask the question again. I was asked not to post about it again.
I unsubscribed from the SLDev list. It is apparent that there are at least a few vociferous developers who do not think what I was requesting was fair. One could even take a leap of faith and say that everyone on the SLDev list likes the licensing and doesn't want anyone to rock the boat - but that doesn't mean that it is right for everyone.
If there is a failure, it is that Linden Lab has no official information available on the licensing. And that raises some very serious questions on their licensing, commercial and otherwise. When I commented on all of this in January, 2007 I figured that by around July things would be sorted out.
Apparently not. Maybe November, 2008? 2009? 2010?
Personally, I believe that if I create something and someone sells it for money, I deserve recompense - and to gauge that recompense, be it money or otherwise, I believe I would have to know the price that they are selling things for. That seems fair.
Meanwhile, I fully expect to explain to the potential client that the community browsers are probably worth supporting. I'll see them this Wednesday in Florida.
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It's complicated
I'm not on that mailing list, but this topic interests me too. On LL's defense: Licensing deals can be quite complicated, it's not like selling a CD in a box. So it doesn't surprise me that you didn't get the answer you were looking for. The "price", if that term is even applicable here, is a complicated function of their perception of what they will get out of making a deal with *you* in particular. I imagine that they aren't interested in making deals en masse -- that's not a sustainable business model in this case. I imagine that LL is only interested in licensing deals that bring something potentially big to them. Like Sheep's connections to show biz, or IBM's industry influence. They have all the right to do that.
However, like you and many, I find it a bit disturbing the exploitation of technical talent on the open source viewer. That's not just LL either. The only amusing thing in it is the irony of Stallman's extremist idealism being pushed just a tiny little bit, and morphing into the exact opposite extreme of what he preaches. Stallman: "Software MUST be open and free!" The smart young VP in a software company: "Yes! Here's our open and free code, add to it. Now all your base are belong to us!"
Well, people should read the fine print, I guess. That's why so much talent stays away from it and goes instead to projects like libsecondlife.
Diva Canto
If it is complicated...
They should state that. For all they know, my client could be a multinational corporation. It is quite likely that they will never find out - as of yet, I have not received any information on the question of licensing.
To even state that a commercial license is available without being able to communicate about the license effectively is unethical, in my book.
And personally, I agree about the twisting of the GPL. I also agree that a lot of talent will be pushed away by LL's decision with their licensing as well as what could very well be licensing-for-our-friends-only.
They haven't exactly been looking out for the Second Life community. I suppose that this shouldn't surprise me at all.
Second Life Consultant
I don't disagree with you!
I don't disagree with you! I'm just trying to put the spotlight on their side of the situation, so that you and others have better chances of succeeding in grabbing their attention for licensing purposes, if that's what you really want (is it really? :-) Technology licensing is a complicated process in general, it's almost never a one-size-fits-all. Linden Lab is a for-profit corporation trying to grasp, and profit from, the consequences of their own creation; they're not angels of the metaverse. Until there are other serious contenders at the platform level, they can afford to be prima donnas. And it may very well be that they don't have the resources to cope with the huge public interest.
Diva Canto
At this stage of the game...
I don't want anything from them. I don't need anything from them. My expectations of Linden Lab are based on what they have demonstrated in the past.
Expecting them to improve is foolish. Expecting them to dress up things as they aren't is to be expected.
What can I give clients as far as Second Life? Realistic expectations. Something it seems that many others have been unable to do. :-)
Second Life Consultant
Free for those that can afford it.
Sounds like one of those 'free for those that can afford it but very expensive for those that cannot' type situations.
HatHead Rickenbacker.
Might be.
Sounds about right. All perfectly legal, of course.
Second Life Consultant
I agree 100%
Totally agree with ya!
Here's a few suggestions.
Email Glenn Linden.... Glenn@LindenLab.com
see if he replies.
Go to an office hours of one of the lindens and IM them during that. See if you get a reply.
Talk to an ESC person, either being truthful and asking for a suggestion of proper course... or acting as a potential client/buyer for their services.
Offer Linden Lab 3 Prime-Time commercial spots on a major tv network, and have someone along the lines of Gary Sinese putting boobies on his avatar.
Prime-time commercial spots...
Not sure I can do that. But I can put boobies on my avatar. For a price. :-)
Second Life Consultant
Commercial licensing
I also am quite curious to know more about this. It seems the discussion on the SLDev list has made more than a few people uncomfortable, and one of the LL employees has even requested that people stop discussing the issue, or move it to some unknown mailing list that he himself isn't subscribed to. Yet it is a valid discussion, because undoubtedly many people such as myself had not considered that their contributions could be sold to third parties without their express permission or compensation. Hopefully this discussion will result in clarification from Linden Lab.
SL avatar Corax Homewood
I hope so.
I have pretty thick skin, so the SLDev list and what happened offlist really didn't bother me too much. I was reasonable in the questions I asked. I remained reasonable, even saying I wouldn't post on the list about it until 48 hours had elapsed (from yesterday) to see if I got a response from Linden Lab.
As you know, that sort of got shot down. :-)
Discussion is good. Especially in a project accused of being open source. :-)
Second Life Consultant
I had the same feeling and
I had the same feeling and considering the general attitude I was actually considering signing that agreement and getting involved but now I'm not, especially considering the rest of the responses I got and a few PM's which to paraphrase were mostly variations of how dare you question licensing, LL, the sheep, or some variation of the three. You were one of the few who's response I really appreciated though since you had reasoned it and actually asked the question I was hoping someone would ask but didn't have a reason to ask myself. Hope you won't be a stranger in third party projects which actually adhere to the spirit (LL only applies to the legalism but breaks the spirit) of a free project (as in Tibet) and not just one where the code is free (as in beer).
-Gordon Wendt
Yeah.
I think it is well within anyone's rights to ask how much a commercial license for the browser costs, though.
Linden Lab has quite obviously granted those rights, and it only has one public way of doing it. That is through purchasing it.
Second Life Consultant