Last night before I went to bed, I decided I was going to blog THIS STORY Michelle Lingiuan had shared with me a few days previous. She had lost a piece of land to landbot Celene Ballinger for $1L when she was trying to sell and it's contents to a friend standing right next to her so that the friend could edit a few things for her. Michelle was totally unaware that landbots existed and she admittedly made the error of setting it to sell to anyone thinking no one could beat the friend standing next to her. Michelle was very upset because she had just bought the land it set it up with her store. She attempted several times to contact Celene with no luck over the next few days. After the blog was posted last night I received a message from Celene starting that I had my facts wrong. She said that Michelle's Land was 1920 meters and not 4096 meters and that was true. In my first conversation I had with Michelle she told me she wasn't positive about the size. She had just bought the land and didn't pay attention to size. She basically told me that if I wanted Michelle to get her land back, I had better clarify the size error and then we would look at the idea of the land being returned because she had not resold it yet. Why the size makes any difference I'm not sure. She also told that she had been giving back errors for over 5 weeks, and well I knew this fact was false because I knew a few people who had lost land to her in the last 5 weeks. The first person I thought of was Jezebel Bailey who lost 22,112 meters to her for $1L and had to pay 6.5L a meter to get the land back. I also thought of Raver Bellows who lost 17664 meters of mainland to her for $133L. Both say they tried several times to contact her. The whole thing was really pissing me off, but she warned me if I wasn't nice that she would not return the land for spite, just like her profile states. And I think she was wanting me to blog that none of this was her fault because she doe's not violate the TOS and the blame should go on the person who made the error alone, but as anyone who reads my blogs knows, thats not how I feel. I think hiding under the TOS is cowardly when You are knowingly taking advantage of peoples errors. Well that conversation was earlier today.
A little while ago I get an im from Michelle. She says that she is talking to Celene. She said that Celene had contacted her earlier in the day but she was at work and camping so could not respond and she was talking to her again now. This was he first response from Celene, 5 days after the land had been bought. She said she basically felt she was being bribed with her land. Celene was telling her that if she posted on my original blog that she had made an error about the size, and that Celene was giving her the land back, that Michelle would get the land back. Or in Celene's words.. "Well you told her that I stole a 4096 from you when you actually sold the land to me, that needed to be corrected, i need you to post on that blog a comment that it was a 1920 and NOT 4096 and that you are actually talking to me to get your land back. I will check that in 15 minutes and set your land back, it would be best if you do that for us" Michelle decided it would be best not to post until after she got the land. To ad insult to injury, Celene even made Michelle say it was all her fault. Celene: I am sorry but I think your understand this wrong, You set the land for sale to "anyone", I bought the land before your friend did, that doesn't mean I took your land, you sold the land, do we understand each other here? [19:05] Michelle Lingiuan: yes i understand it was a mistake on my part. Michelle said she felt bad being forced to say those things but she had no choice if she wanted her land back. And Michelle did get her land back. So in this case, I suppose we have a happy ending.
With that said, I need to say that I do not feel sorry for having posted the blog in the first place. The only error in the blog was the land size, and I believed that to be true at the time I wrote it. I feel that the particular size had little to do with the situation as a whole. And given her tract record, and all of the past situations where she did not return land, I don't think I was out of line taking Michelle's story seriously. I find it odd that it took 5 days and a blog entry for Celene to respond to Michelle. I think it's dirty that Celene takes no responsibility for her actions. When You take a piece of land for $1L you know full and well that You are taking advantage of another persons error no matter what the TOS says. Trying to belittle the person and make them say it was all there fault is like rubbing salt into open sores. I hope Celene really is making a change and starts returning errors on a regular basis. This turned out to be a fairly happy ending for Michelle aside from a little humiliation. I wish I were able to say the same for Jezebel, Raver, and various others.
- Sarah Nerd's blog
- Add new comment
- 1961 reads

Haha ... I wanna see someone sue them!
The fact that people are actually saying they are going to sue is comical. So people want to sue someone for them doing something dumb and selling the land for 1L... Why is it their fault? They follow the rules and take advantage of an allowed practice in SL
Where've you been?
There have been copyright lawsuits, why not suits related to virtual property? They are just as real if you measure them by the currency that they are purchased with.
Second Life Consultant
They take advantage of
They take advantage of others. Plain and simple. It's a very dirty practace, and how someone could be so selfish and knowingly cause pain suffering and loss to anouther person like this just makes me sick. It's not right that someone else can take something that is worth hundreds even a few thousand usd or more for a fraction of a cent and not take any responibility for there actions because someone else made a simple error. The money loss in these situations are getting greater and greater and starting to ad up, and I think in a class action suit it will be easy to prove that there is a lot of wrong doing in this practace. Bragg sued LL and won, Stroker and other designers are involved in two lawsuits right now and his both look very promising. Were starting to see a lot of changes in the way virtual products are viewed by the legal system.
The longer I'm in sl, the more I see how real Karma is.
Business is business
Some people consider car salesman sleazy but that doesn't make what they do illegal and gives people the right to sue. What you are forgetting is these people indeed SET THEIR OWN LAND FOR SALE! The 2 lawsuits you name deal with copyrights and stolen things...SL STOLE BRAGGS LAND... STROKERS BED WAS STOLEN... these people set their land for sale!
And they set it for sale through an interface...
Where they are forced to risk large amounts of cash with no recompense.
If you can't get your head around that, I just have to wait. Sooner or later, you'll screw up and you'll lose reputation and money.
Some say that this has already happened.
Consider carefully before responding.
Second Life Consultant
Heh. I had a conversation with her too.
I sent her a rather tame notecard, which started a discussion. Unfortunately, she didn't like that I wasn't kissing up - I simply laid the cards out on the table, since she can't really do anything to me - I don't deal in mainland. I don't need to be on her good side. I don't need to suck up to her, like many other people do to get her to do the right thing (if, in fact, it is a her. Seems more of a guy to me, but...)
It really isn't my problem anymore. I just don't like seeing innocent people get screwed over by a power-tripping landbot owner.
But, as I told her, she's only the tip of the iceberg. However, as I also said, the community has a blowtorch:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Celene+Ballinger%22&btnG=Google+...
If this ever goes to court through the class action suit, a lot of these landbot owners will have their real names on the web... and the internet never forgets. Acting unconscionably can result in people not hiring you, etc., etc.
Second Life Consultant
Heheh, the cockroach asking
Heheh, the cockroach asking the tenant to turn out the light. Precious.
Blackmail
Well if that is not blackmail!
It isn't.
Pretty funny to think it would be - but if someone does something which is reportable these days, it ends up on the internet for a very long time. It is, quite simply, the way it is.
If you want to get your head around that, I suggest reading this book.
Second Life Consultant
how this person justifies
how this person justifies their use of a technological advantage (landbot) is frightening but not altogether surprising. it's as if, in real life, this person rushed in between a friend giving a friend a wad of cash on a public street corner. in the real world we would protest wildly and vociferiously. it's robbery and this person wouldn't stand up against the judgement of the community.
however, in second life, we don't all play the game the same way. while some play it to laugh at the idiots they abuse, others enjoy their lives helping and interacting with their fellow residents. go figure. it's a wild world. protect yourself.
LL made the knowledgebase
LL made the knowledgebase article "how to sell land" (find it here : https://secondlife.com/community/support.php?questionID=4530) article of the week in one of their latest blog entries.
And... that knowledgebase article has a clear warning, though I don't know if that was recently added, or there all along. Maybe someone else has an answer to that?
"Warning: If you want to sell this parcel to a particular Resident, make sure you adjust this setting properly! Some Residents are capable of detecting and buying underpriced land almost as soon as it becomes publicly available"
I guess thanks are in order to Jeremy Linden to bring the trouble regarding land sales to the forefront again.
ServMe Nakamura
virtualSecond CEO
Well
We all know by now that LL will take the out because they placed the warning....what more can be done really? It's like the "HOT" warning on a cup of coffee that McDonald's got sued over years ago or the suit where some guy gained a ton of weight claiming their fries were addicting and sued. I guess a "You will get fat" warning should go on the fry box.
Since I have never encountered this AND LL has the warning, I don't really know how to combat it. You would hope that there is integrity even in a thief but as we see here, we all stand corrected.