Quite a few places have mentioned the lawsuit filed against Linden Lab over the virtual land dispute, Tateru mentions it here for Massively, Hamlet mentions it here on New World Notes and Ren Reynolds has a very good piece here, on Terra Nova.
The actual website detailing the claim is here. This has can of worms written all over it. I'm not a lawyer, Tateru, Hamlet and Ren aren't lawyers either so all of our views are our own opinions, but to me, should this case be successful, we're in for a whole load of trouble.
Let's look at some of the issues, do we own land in Second Life? I've never felt that I owned the land, I've never had the impression that I've owned the land, I've long maintained that it's more like a leasehold agreement. However Linden Lab have thrown around the ownership term, will that come back to bite them?
There also appears to be a complaint regarding the Linden dollar being a real currency, again I've never subscribed to this belief, but this is where we hit serious can of worms territory because if the Linden dollar is deemed a real currency, we have tax issues, we have customer service issues, we have a massive can of worms.
In Europe, when you purchase something over the internet you are protected by distance selling laws, these laws allow you to return an item within seven days for a full refund, imagine that being the case in Second Life, who would want to live in Europe and sell copiable items if consumers could return an item for a full refund within seven days? Items within Second Life would be considered electonic services I would assume, therefore the right to cancel is different from purchasing physical goods, but there would need to be all sorts of user agreements published prior to a consumer using an item, it's a messy scenario to say the least.
Whereas currently in the UK, HMRC do not deem transactions to be made within a virtual world as services for the purposes of VAT, this could all change if the Linden Dollar is deemed as being akin to a real world currency, that would be an almighty headache for Europeans. As I said above, I'd imagine virtual goods would be treated the same as electronic service, Second Life itself fits that category, that's why we in Europe pay VAT for using it. Books are another example, I don't have to pay VAT on a physical book but I do for an ebook, as ebooks are considered an electronic service, not a book.
However it's land and property that this case mostly deals with, complaining that numerous times Linden Lab seemed to indicate that you owned the land, you owned the items, whereas I've long been under the impression we have a licence to use, the new TOS does make this abundantly clear. There would be all sorts of different issues if we owned Second Life items, it's a completely different kettle of fish to having a licence to use.
Whereas Linden Lab currently try and avoid resident to resident disputes, this would be made more difficult were this case to be succesful and we'd also have more legal issues to face as a whole, this would be an issue for all residents.
Whereas one day there may well be a virtual world with real ownership, real money, and real consumer protection laws, it's not here yet and we're not ready for it. This case has dangerous implications, I hope it crashes and burns.
However, that's not to say I believe Linden Lab should be above the law or allowed to act unethically, if the defendants have been genuinely wronged then they have the right to complain, it's the implications of this case, implications that go way beyond the complaints, that concern me.
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[...] might be typical contract law, this case is anything but typical. As Ciaran Laval points out, this case could open a massive can of worms. With Judge Robreno already having an understand of the case, Archinaco having some experience [...]
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
When you buy property you don't continue to pay an access fee to use it (tier). Tier is a service fee for a service. If SL land is ruled to be property then we will have to pay property taxs to the state and county where the servers are located.
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
The question of whether or not you "own" land may be worthy of some discussion although I think most people would agree it's obvious that you don't.
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[...] Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms | Your2ndPlace www.your2ndplace.com/node/1765 – view page – cached Quite a few places have mentioned the lawsuit filed against Linden Lab over the virtual land dispute, Tateru mentions it here for Massively, Hamlet mentions it here on New World Notes and Ren Reynolds has a very good piece here, on Terra Nova. Tweets about this link Topsy.Data.Twitter.User['nrodovsky'] = {"location":"Iran","photo":"http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/689935750/twitterProfilePhoto_normal.jpg","name":"Nicole Rodovsky","url":"http://twitter.com/nrodovsky","nick":"nrodovsky","description":"Single Chicana F, 34, Writer, Bead artist.","influence":"Highly Influential"}; nrodovskyHighly Influential: “RT @malburns: "Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms" http://bit.ly/baOToU ” 19 minutes ago view tweet retweet Topsy.Data.Twitter.User['malburns'] = {"location":"London, UK, The Metaverse","photo":"http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/25054262/1058984506_m_normal.jpg","name":"Mal Burns","url":"http://twitter.com/malburns","nick":"malburns","description":"Metaverse News Aggregator & Broadcaster","influence":"Highly Influential"}; malburnsHighly Influential: “"Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms" http://bit.ly/baOToU ” 21 minutes ago view tweet retweet Filter tweets [...]
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
The US IRS already considers L$ to be a currency, you might recall.
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
Do you have a link? This is the first time I've heard of this.
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
Correct me if I am wrong here but I am pretty sure two major things have to happen in order for the US government to recognize a currency. First it must be backed, at least in part, by something tangable such as gold or silver. Second, you must provide conversion. The LindeX in this case would not apply because its not immediate. You have to find a buyer (albeit this happens automatically it still applies).
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
At present there are no extant national currencies that are fully backed by tangibles such as gold or silver. The last of the Gold Standard currencies quit in 2000.
Gold (and silver) are still used a reserve currency (to enable financial reserves in the event that the primary currency should suddenly devalue), however, they no longer are a foundation for the value of primary currencies. Essentially all primary currencies are fiat currencies in practice these days.
The US IRS, the UK HMRC, Swedish Revenue and the Australian ATO (and possibly others) all deal with Linden Dollars and virtual assets as any other kind of intangible assets and barter currencies. That is, capital gains tax (at minimum) applies, and income tax may also apply. In the USA, your virtual economic activities are supposed to be reported on Form 1040, Schedule D.
ATO ref: ATO spokeswoman quoted in Sydney Morning Herald 31/10/06 and ABC 4 Corners 19/03/07 "Real world value of a transaction may form part of your taxable income, even in Linden dollars"
HMRC ref: HMRC spokesman quoted in Virtual Worlds News and The Independent 5/8/07 "Same tax rules apply to internet trading as to any other form of trading and HMRC compliance approach remains the same" etc
Swedish Revenue ref: Swedish Revenue 17/4/08 "Skatteverketmakes a standpoint that income from gaming sites are subject to taxation"
IRS ref: IRS National Taxpayer Advocate 2009 report to congress. See also: http://www.massively.com/2009/01/13/irs-reports-to-congress-virtual-worl...
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
HMRC are fun to talk to regarding Second Life.
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
I am no lawyer but I would think that if there is a dispute over "owning" the land in second life then there would need to first be an establishing of what "land" is.
If you want to use words like "land" and "own" in regard to a virtual world then surely there has to be a common sense understanding of the words in their context. My sister bought me a piece of the moon for one Xmas for a bit of fun. And I OWN it...I have the certificate to prove it!!!
I have also, in my time owned Park Lane, Old Kent Road and The Water Works.
This is for sure a can of worms, and if it is looked upon as a bait and switch then perhaps it could have merit but really, did they think they really OWNED the land.
DM
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
I agree, although I avoided going to this depth just yet in reporting on the case.
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
I doubt, but I'm not sure, that virtual objects sold in SL would count as a service - wouldn't they count as software and be covered by the 'license to use' principle? Suppliers (in UK) can legally refuse to accept returns on used/opened software and I'd expect the same to apply to virtual goods.
Re: Virtual Land dispute could open massive can of worms
This is why the ownership issue is important, a licence to use is very different, but you are probably right that it would be more akin to a software licence than a straight up electronic service for virtual goods, virtual land would probably be a service.