October 7, 2009 by Ciaran Laval
Posted in
The author of the controversial Neil Life viewer has posted on his blog an apologetic post claiming that he's not a bad guy and that people shouldn't do bad things with his viewer and if bad things happen because of his viewer don't shout at him, because people are breaching his own TOS. He's also claiming that he's only highlighting security flaws so that they can be fixed. The full blog can be read here.
However the post, which is rather rambling and could do with a few more paragraphs really starts to get into eyebrow raising territory near the end where he posts:
"If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I can but it would ruin a lot of other clients copybotting abilities( if it works, I think I know a solution)."
I'm sure Neil could go from Zero to hero if he was capable of doing such a thing, despite his chequered past, but somehow I'm not convinced that fixing copybot is a straight forward fix.
The issue of backing up content is a thorny issue. Whereas people want the means to backup content, content creators want people to do this responsibly. This is why we had all the hoo-ha about Rezzable's builder bot, the attitude seems to be that someone will edit the source and make a version that doesn't respect permissions so why bother with those extra steps, but those extra steps are what make your tool ethically appealing. Cutting corners because someone else may release or create an unethical solution simply doesn't cut the mustard.
Of course some of the onus falls on Linden Lab, but just because something can be done, it doesn't mean it should be done and this is where these "Backup" tools all too often fail the ethics test. If Neil can fix copybot great, but really his first step should be to put measures into his default viewer that stop people from taking content they have no right to take. Wouldn't that be a start Neil? Wouldn't that be the first step into making people have a bit more respect for your efforts? Take your security concerns direct to Linden Lab, don't release them far and wide on a public blog and a public viewer because ethically that simply doesn't wash.
Neil states on his blog:
"If I let people know theres a bugs in sl, I get blamed. Please I do not want it this way."
The solution here is simple, don't encourage your users to circumvent the permissions system and that all goes away. Let Linden Lab know about the bugs by all means, but don't encourage others to take advantage of them.
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Re: Neil Life Author
To the author of Neil Life: Security issues should be reported to the security team. Please see http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Security_issues for more information.
I don't think he can fix copybot. I think he may have a way of significantly increasing the complexity, but realise that far more complex copy protection systems have been broken before. For example BD+ (Blu-Ray's system), which includes the ability of copy protected content to run custom code on the client system, which is meant to be trusted hardware anyway.
That said, there's always the chance he's got something no-one's thought of before. Lets hear it, I say...
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
Good lord, he sounds like he's about twelve. A poor-quality twelve. And no, he can't "fix copybot".
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
Well now he's complaining that people are making fun of his "grammer".
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
Considering that programming is primarily about expressing ideas within a meticulous syntax and grammar, I am becoming increasingly doubtful that he actually produces his own code at all.
I'm guessing that he is just stitching together other people's work, and has no real skill himself.
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
*facepalm*
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[...] Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I can" | Your2ndPlace www.your2ndplace.com/node/1614 – view page – cached The author of the controversial Neil Life viewer has posted on his blog an apologetic post claiming that he's not a bad guy and that people shouldn't do bad things with his viewer and if bad things... (Read more)The author of the controversial Neil Life viewer has posted on his blog an apologetic post claiming that he's not a bad guy and that people shouldn't do bad things with his viewer and if bad things happen because of his viewer don't shout at him, because people are breaching his own TOS. He's also claiming that he's only highlighting security flaws so that they can be fixed. The full blog can be read here. (Read less) — From the page [...]
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[...] Second Life® is a registered trademark of Linden Lab® , as are the Eye-in-Hand logo®, Hexagon log... [...]
blah blah blah
People who produce copyright infringement tools often claim to be heroes by 'pointing out the bugs'. I don't really think most of them believe it. I think that they're just trying to muddy the waters a bit.
There's quite a number of ways to get the bugs addressed and little evidence that this guy has tried any of them. Publicly releasing exploits for them and then laughing about the damage done doesn't come very high on that list. Public disclosure is usually only a last resort after every other option has been exhausted.
Imagine for a moment that you find an obscure security hole in an online banking website that allowed you to zero someone's account balance. Is it reasonable to make a tool available to allow anyone to do that for any reason that they like and say "I'm just pointing out the bug. I'm not the bad guy here."
No. You'd have to be a bit of an idiot to think that way, or rather worse than that to profess it as a cover.
Re: blah blah blah
Exactly, if it was all about highlighting fixes there are many channels that don't upset the applecart, it's a feeble excuse for releasing a client that circumvents permissions and ban access.
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
So, what if there was a test that SL performed every time a client tried to login which checked to see if that particular client respected the permissions system within SL? It would have to be a 'real-use' test of course, something which mimicked the action of trying to copy objects in-world that you didn't own, and not just some easily-bypassed code check.
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
I'm sure there are technical reasons why it wouldn't work too but the premise is a good one, you offer them an object they shouldn't be able to copy and if they take the bait it's a dodgy client.
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
I think you guys seem to be missing the point... most people would like to see these features appear in a client.
If you feel , for your own greedy reasons, that content should be protected... take it up with Linden Lab... but the current set-up allows for copybot... so anyone who creates a client that makes use of this is simply providing an excellent service.
Maybe you would like to see LSL removed from the official client too to prevent people writing scripts that are similar to yours....
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
"Maybe you would like to see LSL removed from the official client too to
prevent people writing scripts that are similar to yours.... "
Writing a script similar, takes a wee bit of talent. Using a viewer to copy items people have worked at, does not take a wee bit of talent of the person piggy backing on the work of the client writer.
Greedy? People work hard to make creations, it's not greedy to expect some respect.
If people see this as an excellent service why can't you sign your post with your sl name?
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
The fact is linden labs is well aware of how these copy routines work, they have also known for quite some time and also know to fix it they would have to write a lot of their original client and server code and to them is man hours and will cost money, linden are in the making money business, not the spending business, they neither care or want to do fixes in the level that is required to sort out copybot activities once and for all.
People who make content cry all over the media scene about losing income in second life, well in case you haven't checked the terms of service or license agreement of use when you first started second life, you don't own any of your "content", linden labs is responsible for your content and own it, not you, they are just as responsible for copy right infringements, content made by any user in second life that has a likeness or actual name of a registered copyrighted item "must" be removed from their servers, no matter if you cry or whinge to your hearts content, you signed your second life away agreeing to that agreement when you first started using second life, linden labs could delete you and all your content and take your linden dollars tomorrow and you couldn't do a thing about it.
Second life TOS ( 1.4: Linden Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden Lab at any time)
Second life TOS 2.6 ( Linden Lab may suspend or terminate your account at any time, without refund or obligation to you.
Linden Lab has the right at any time for any reason or no reason to suspend or terminate your Account, terminate this Agreement, and/or refuse any and all current or future use of the Service without notice or liability to you. In the event that Linden Lab suspends or terminates your Account or this Agreement, you understand and agree that you shall receive no refund or exchange for any unused time on a subscription, any license or subscription fees, any content or data associated with your Account, or for anything else.)
You ever wonder why the second life viewer was made open source like limewire was :), do the math. If you depend on second life as your life and income then you may select a medium that it's authors actually back 100% not run on about for over a year talking about initiives that never unfold or become reality!
If people want to complain about their content, then i suggest..
1) Pay for copyright of your item, just don't expect it just because you say it is, doesn't work that way.
2) Clearly state the licence or copyright with your items and every item under such license or copyright should contain the license not just scripts.
3) Demand linden labs to fix the issue, but then lots have tried, they don't care.
4) Stop talking about banning clients that offer copy bot type features, these people are programmers, if they didn't want you to know they're doing it, they wouldn't, and accounts made on second life are at a abundance, no point.
I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears and i'll get "pro slammed" by the people who live on second life, but i'm just stating a fact.
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
No you're stating opinion and are perfectly free to state opinions but you're wrong about Linden Lab owning the content, read again, it's all in there but they don't own your content, you give them permission to use it, but not to own it.
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
Well if they can delete it without your permission or without reason, that stands to the contrary doesn't it, linden labs own/rent and maintain the servers that your object or content lingers, they have direct and ultimate control over it where you do not.
You can't even fully delete your content, they will always have a copy regardless of your own opinion or warrants, control is in their hands to pull the plug and their own rules say you cant do anything about it, it's like linden labs owning the house your armchair is in, they can claim anything they want and destroy that armchair without remorse because it was on private property.
People may think they own the content but they don't really, it's a xml file with data on a asset server that gets pulled once called, like a dog wont just respond to "here boy" to its owner, it will do so to any stranger who attempts it, it's lindens job to make that dog growl back at the stranger and keep it off the property, not come licking the heels of all the strangers with a untrained dog/viewer/service, bit of a strange analogy but you get the picture.
Linden labs could simply take one grid offline (aditi? or otherwise) and rewrite the asset delivery and handling, keeping agni online till it's done then force the viewer update, like they have with the adult issue because they got into trouble over it, but we both know they won't :)
They've always had the means to fix the issue but they just don't want to spend time or money in the project, hell i can see the reference, the times are rough with a recession ongoing, but they have lindens running about doing complete idiotic things that could be put into play on the fixes or at least working on a suitable deterrant, not depending on a single third party person to fix their issues while staining them at every corner, pure laziness on their part.
Along the lines of the great gun debate "guns dont kill people, people do", "viewers dont copy theft, users do"
Shame on linden labs!
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
Your2ndPlace.com seems to be a blog wherein anyone attempting to do anything with software is blasted to bits.
I'm waiting to see if any one of the soul-sucking mongoloids who blog here actually do more than bitch.
I expect to be waiting forever.
Please return to reselling freebies and tok amungst yosefs.
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
Considering the whole of Second Life is based around software your comment is pretty damn absurd. How old are you? Fourteen?
Re: Neil Life Author : "If everyone wants me to fix copybot. I c
Just ignore childish comments.
Galilea Montijo