WSE Website Down, Second Chances in 'Virtual Finance,' and Writer - Know Thyself
If the barrage of IMs I've received recently is any indication, readers are well aware that the WSE website is down.
What does it mean? I have no idea. I will leave it to you all to speculate.
My primary concern has never been that 'Luke will run,' but that the WSE will, through the implementation of a Facebook application, introduce the virtual exchange to a new audience of hapless investors that are not aware of his questionable actions of the last five months and beyond. The routine deletion of all announcements conveying a 'negative WSE attitude' is the basis and support for my concern. And though it remains, a look to the WSE group on Facebook assures me there are people out there working to prevent this unfortunate possibility. I should note that a Facebook search yielded a listing of 2 World Stock Exchange applications - neither available when the applications section was clicked. It's only a matter of time.
Recently, Jasper Tizzy graced Y2P with his presence in order to comment on one of my recent articles. At the time of publishing this article, the dialogue resulting from his reemergence has the tone of "I'm sorry, how do I make it better?" I will go on the record here and now to say I am 100% not buying it. But our own Ash Wade has taken up the task of considering Tizzy's comments for a positive outcome. I wish him well, as I want no part of it. If history shows me to have been wrong, we can add it to the list of things 'Konner McDonnell has been wrong about.' Anyone keeping track?
This turn of events begs the question: What if LukeConnell Vandeverre came to Y2P and said: "I'm sorry." What if he returned the money of every delisted company or issued a dividend from WTF that was so massive it virtually replaced the lost assets? Would investors suddenly trust again?
In real life, I am a humanist. I believe that people do bad things with good intentions. But I am not one to let people exact the same trangressions upon me twice. "Fool me once" they say. It is an interesting question for a moral philosopher - Does one supremely bad act negate all the good a person does? While I would hasten to say 'no' I'm not exactly in favor of giving people the power to do the same wrong twice. Whether it is questionable intent, a character flaw, or simply weakness, I prefer the maxim of not leading those with a displayed inability to live up to their promises into temptation. Actually, the maxim is 'lead us not into temptation' or in the US Army, 'keep your buddy honest.'
In the end, whether to trust again is not my decision to make. Having withdrawn from the open exchanges, I would have no investment to make that would be symbolic of a 'second chance.' And while the question itself is not easily answered, I fully believe that the events following WSE 4.0's launch will tell us a few things about how investors feel, one way or the other.
Meanwhile, it is time for me cut back where Y2P is concerned. One of the hardest lessons for me to learn in life is that of limits. I am, as has been pointed out, a hard-charger. Even a young idealist must create boundaries and keep things in context. I've been asked more than once: "What're your plans for your SL future." I have plenty of ideas and lots of projects I'd like to pursue, but to fully consider them, I can't be spending as much time as I have been wading through current events in finance. Perhaps I should be creating some of those events/ Outside of SL, I'm enjoying my first vacation in five years. I should spend more of that time horseback riding and swimming and a bit less time engaged in hobbies that closely parallels what I do the other 9 months out of the year. Limits.
While I am an eager young man, I have my flaws. Just as I am willing to point them out in SL finance, I am quick to admit my own. Keeps others from doing it first ;)
Ciaran has assured me that she'll keep tabs on the WSE for emerging developments in case I miss them due to my diminished presence.
I'm not sure if posting updates regarding my personal status where Y2P is concerned conveys dedication to readers or unseemly vanity. I'll let you judge that.
Best wishes to you all.
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:) I want to clarify my
:) I want to clarify my position on the Tizzy thing. I was lying in bed last night thinking about this. I haven't really taken to task to consider Jasper/Frank's comments for positive outcome. I do believe in the benefit of the doubt. I believe that Frank had good intention with his businesses. However, the manner in which he left and the way he executed his "retirement" from SL left everyone with questions about his business ethics, himself, and everything about SL finance. It couldn't have been a more poorly planned decision in an already unstable environment. The domino effect that followed and the decisions made on behalf of his delegate and successors is something that he needs to own up to. Ultimately he is responsible for the effect that followed.
It can't be my task to try and help others clear there name or see that it was their decision that caused the ripple effect. I have a responsibility to my companies and more importantly, the FED shareholders until Ford returns. This already takes a majority of my free time.
He obviously wants to clear his name, but he wants to share the blame with others.
I was trying to get across:
1) He was the face of the bank. No one cares that he folded it into anything or that it was partially owned by someone else (of which there is conflicting info as to the percentage owned). Therefore he can scream that he was scammed out the wahoo but until he owns up and pays his depositors no one will absolve him of anything.
2) He wants to blame Intlibber for taking assets that weren't CGIs, but he has not produced proof even touched any of the points asking for proof that these assets weren't CGIs. No one is going to believe someone that abandoned his companies. The interesting thing to me is that he was supposedly in touch with Patrickj the whole time. There are many questions here, and now so much time has passed that other vital players, such as Monkey Canning, can't even be contacted to discuss if they had agreed to add assets as part of a CGI restructure. I'm not sure how this played out. What I do know is that he left Patrickj in charge of a company he abandoned. Patrickj made a desicion to merge CGI with BNT, and although it was questionable and controversial, it was ratified by a majority of both companies’ shareholders. Any mishandling of assets on the CGI/AVC side was a result of CGI/AVC executives (direct hires of Jasper Tizzy) and therefore are not the responsibility of BNT. Sorry, but no amount of influence would ever cause me to put Intlibber above FED shareholders. I have a fiduciary duty to them.
3) He did not discuss what happened to the $3500 USD that he held from tier? Was it paid out to the bank holders? Who has been paid? Who hasn't? The better decision would have been to pay the tier, liquidate all the land and pay the bank holders back. Then retire. If AVC had over 260,000 sqm of mainland – that would sell for $1,560,000 at L$6 a share (some land would fetch more – others less), or roughly $5886 USD. In abandoning the company this was all put in jeopardy.
4) The root of all this evil is the hasty decision that was made, which was not even communicated by Jasper himself, but was made by Tobia at VSTEX. How he could believe that no one would remember him after everything that happened with Nicholas I will never know.
So I’m done with this. Konner, you do a good job. Although I am sure you need a break, it would be a shame to not have your analysis.
Anonymous, I not sure if you follow RL finance but I am sorry to disappoint you. Scams are not just in SL (Enron, Tyco, WorldCom, Adelphia, iVillage, Societe Generale to name a few). They also experience bank runs (Countrywide Fianancial, Northern bank, and Bear Stears come to mind in the most recent year). The only difference is that in RL you can sue and people can be held accountable. Too bad SL doesn’t have a formal way for handling these issues. There are some great operations in SL that wouldn’t have been founded had they not had access to pooled capital. The money provided to these companies has provided a consistent return to their shareholders. Some quick examples are Kush Islands, Yellow Paperclip, Zenya Zoning Real Estate, Delicious Demar Enterprises, and Jamaica Estates. If you took a moment to understand the depth of the market and the nature of how finances work in both RL and SL you might understand more. You can’t always believe what you read elsewhere, especially from people who have nothing to do with the industry. The difference is that Y2P has people who understand the business and try to make a difference for the good. To generalize and say they are all scams is a little much. However, if you are interested in filing a complaint with someone, which I am sure has been done ad nauseum (and even by myself in certain cases), you can look up the Securities and Exchange Commission, the FBI Internet Crimes unit, so on so forth (in the US). This is nothing new and has been posted many times over in many different places.
The problem is that it's not only the exchanges. I've lost more money in private partnerships. At least the exchange keeps things in the public eye. The scams will go on, whether it be copybots, land scams or whatever. The best thing you can do is be smart about your transactions.
I guess it’s what they say, one rotten apple spoils the whole bunch. Anyway I’m done. I need a break too.
Ash
I had great concerns about what you were trying to accomplish in diving into this. In the AVC committee I did not say "Monkey Canning is a crook." I only looked at the preponderance of the evidence. The most damning thing was his claim that he 'donated' an unverifiable AVC risk fund to some third-party because the amount was too small to be of any benefit to AVC shareholders. He later declared that the committee had failed to do its duty (he was the most vocal advocate of my joining on as an objective party) and he intended to redouble his efforts to AVC. Apparently the new approach would not include the risk fund. Or if it would, then he was lying about donating it. I digress.
Where Frank Corsi is concerned, by his own admission he abandoned AVC. Why he did it you can speculate on all day, but he did it. Was he directly responsible for everything that happened afterwards? Was Monkey Canning working closely with Jasper Tizzy? There's a suggestion that he was. There's a suggestion that he wasn't. If I wanted to do a thorough analysis that investigated Dawes Financial Corps and even VHI (only because Tizzy named him as a 'good friend), I could. I could analyze the claim of Tizzy's numerous alts. Or Monkey Canning's. I could investigate PatrickJ Ah and Intlibber Brautigan. But why? By Tizzy's own admission he abandoned AVC. If he feels that he should not be held accountable for things that happened after he abandoned the company then neither should be credited with these claimed-attempts to 'protect' AVC shareholders. If his intention was to protect AVC shareholders, his position as CEO would have provided him the best opportunity to do that.
I asked myself why Frank Corsi is returning now trying to 'clear his name.' Is Central Grid suffering due to his association with it? Is it a house of cards ready to crumble and Mr. Corsi may wish to return as himself (instead of the alts he supposedly has, if he has them) or is his RL reputation hurting because of the plethora of google results that must link his name to AVC and beyond? I do not know the answers to that.
What I do believe is that Mr. Corsi should not expect us to 'clear his name.' I remain firm in my belief that nothing I have reported has been false. And I also believe Mr. Corsi to be an intelligent and calculating man. If I am said not to be 'telling the whole story' I would respond: "I am basing my reporting off of a man who abandoned a company.' I am not here to vindicate him. And given that his contact with me followed an emotional rollercoaster of attacking my credibility and honesty, by virtue of those attacks, I would not be the best party to investigate him anyway. If I turned around said "You're right, Frank, I need to investigate the whole truth" and he readily agreed that I was the right person to do that, what would it say about either of us? Am I only credible or objective when I write things how my accuser wants them to be written? Am I a credible person if I let fear of negative comments distort 'truth?" No to both. I listen to accusations and I am readily-willing to admit when I was, in fact, wrong about something I wrote. But it will be a very very cold day in hell before I pander. Pride is one thing. Integrity another.
During the diagloue between you and Mr. Corsi, I fully expected some new prospective business idea to emerge as a 'means to repay AVC shareholders.' Mr. Corsi acted alone when he dumped AVC. If he wants to 'clear his name' or 'right a wrong' then I feel it is his job to figure out how best to do that. If it involves anyone 'investing in him' then I would very strongly oppose this.
Personally I do not think Monkey Canning or Frank Corsi to be 'bad people.' In real life, I have said that 'Hitler probably had some endearing traits too.' Neither are Hitler, but the point is that I don't believe in a universal good or bad and I do accept everything is contextual. Within the context of finance and investments, I believe Mr. Corsi to be untrustworthy because he abandoned AVC. He may very well be a savvy businessman, but he did abandon a company. All of the gossip, accusations, or rumors, need not factor into this opinion.
During my discussion with him in the comments, I realized that simply admitting his wrongdoing and finding his own way of reconciliation was not enough. It had to follow a process of attributing the 'greater wrong' to other parties. That, really, has nothing to do with anything when it comes to righting Frank Corsi's wrong, unless he's finger pointing to draw attention from his perceived culpability. If Frank Corsi wants to amend trespasses that he admits to committing, it should follow something better than "But I wasn't the only one" or "Other people had more to gain from me in x situation." And until he reconciles his own wrongdoing free of external attributions or expectations that he should be trusted, I do not see it as contrition, but deflection. And no matter what his method, until there are firm regulations to prevent anything that has happened from happening again, I would, as I've said, encourage great caution to anyone that would invest in an enterprise that boasts him as a collaborator.
Where this matter is concerned, that is the extent of my thoughts. Since you asked for them.
Reply
Konner.... LOL
"Where Frank Corsi is concerned, by his own admission he abandoned AVC."
I only said the word abandoned after you said that to me. I did abandon SL itself, I left SL. But I did not abandon AVC, I did appoint Patrick the president of the company to take over ALL avc and CGI.
How can you just say that, after I keep saying over and over that Patrickj took over after I left. It has been proven in the news.
You do like to twist the facts. Stop and look at the FACTS.
"I asked myself why Frank Corsi is returning now trying to 'clear his name."
This is not anything new, I have been saying this same story since Sept 2007.
I dont care about clear my name, I want people to see the FACTS. I dont give a sh...t about my name in this mess, it is there already.
"Other people had more to gain from me in x situation."
I didnt gain anything, I never took not $1 from SL
What was the motivation of BNT to merge and take all the land and sell it off?
INTLIBBER wanted the money from my assets. He had alot to gain. He knew the land was AVC asset.
How can you not see the facts?
Take me out of the picture, why would BNT want to merge with CGI?
Patrick had 80% of cgi and could manipulate the merger.
The land was always in the cgi group.
When a investor or depositor would want to see where the money went, it went into buying full sims on mainland and then build a city. Then rent the city, to gain income to pay the expenses. The BANK and AVC expenses. CGI didnt have any.
Can you take a min to look at this page, and maybe you will see the real picture.
http://www.wba-advertising.com/jasper/countless.html
Ask Awm Mars about this. He knew also the land and buildings were paid for with bank funds.
The land in the movies are paid for with BANK money not with CGI, cgi never made any money, it was a management group to collect the tier for AVC.
---------------------- from slexchange forum, when people were bitchin that the bank didnt have a website in Apr 25, 2007
Timothy Harlow
Student
Joined: Sep 23, 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Oregon Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject:
Wow... I don't understand the problem. I've met Jasper inworld and I've done contracted work on some of his sims. The sims look great, the shops are well planned and the man has been nothing but honest with me 100% I know from talking to him that he's extremely busy and I'm sure none of that time goes to building the web page, there's more important things than making a site. The business is already up and running which means there's no time for anything else. I'll be amazed if the site gets built in the next few months. Customer service is number one to Jasper... I know because in the middle of talking to him he'll leave to go take care of someone that's requesting help, that's not a bad thing.
I'd consider myself a pretty good judge of character. I've learned a lot about people in the military and I can read them pretty well just by talking to them, there are only two people inworld I would willingly trust my money to, Jasper is one of them.
Yeah.
"You do like to twist the facts. Stop and look at the FACTS"
Here's the fact I'm focusing on:
http://www.your2ndplace.com/node/1212#comment-11038
"I did abandoned AVC, since my tier was due that same day and I made a choice to leave and not pay LL tier. So I didnt have much time to stay around since LL was and did kill my account."
Now you just said:
"I only said the word abandoned after you said that to me. I did abandon SL itself, I left SL. But I did not abandon AVC..."
So what, you didn't really mean it? You want a "take back?" You could have just as easily said "I did not abandon AVC" as you just claimed. I didn't coerce it. I accused you of abandoning AVC and you confirmed it with your own words. So first you abandoned AVC and then you abandoned SL but not AVC. Make up your mind.
"This is not anything new, I have been saying this same story since Sept 2007."
Dude, you can't even remain consistent in your comments of the last few days.
You've provided us with more than enough information to consider your side of things. That which you deem as 'fact.' If people want to pursue the facts, they certainly will. You once claimed that my youth blinded me. Aren't you like 50? How about you stop pointing fingers at every other person, stop playing the blame game, and start putting together something positive. Calling us misguided and trying to persuade us to believe you hasn't worked so far. How about you go out into the big world, do something good, show us your worth, and then make an attempt to right whatever wrongs you feel you've done. If you don't feel you've done anything wrong, then go on your merry way. Because this approach hasn't worked for you yet and it's damn sure not going to.
If I'm a liar, a fool, and all the other things you've called me in the last few days, what in the hell makes you think any prodding is going to change my mind? If I'm blind, as you've said, I apparently want to remain that way.
Reply
I am sure you know I am telling the truth.
Why dont you admit it.
I have shown alot of proof, and you have to see the facts.
Who gained from this mess, only Intlibber.
Decision
Your apparent inability to focus on the things you have done instead of trying to divert attention to others may not mean that you do not have a point. It certainly does not mean that all the rumors about you are true. What it does mean is that the last year has not changed you. You are very much the same person who abandoned a company for no definitive reason beyond "I chose." You cannot stay true to your own story. And I find no value in continuing any discussion with you. A man must stand accountable for his own actions.
Motion for appeal denied.
Begone.
Reply
Maybe you still dont get the point....
I didnt just one day bolt out, it was over a few days and I did make arrangements with Patrickj and other avc staff.
Innocent people die in prison too.
Have a good evening, Frank.
Have a good evening, Frank. I have nothing else to say.
VSTEX comment
So many info all around, it's hard to keep track of everything and in the right order. Anyway, since Monkey Canning was mentioned... Here's his proposal for AVC. It must be noted, since the beginning he's been hiding his relationship with Frank Corsi. We would have denied the takeover, knowing that.
Monkey Canning's proposal for the take over of AVC
Background
I’ve been in game since the first of April 2007, in all my time here I have strived to form a solid, well respected company that gives back to the community, that company is Monkey Corp.
Monkey Corp assists and supports over 50 residents with free mall locations, free offices and advertising. I currently spend at least 8 hours a day in world,
About Monkey Corp
Monkey Corp is a private limited SL company
It has 3 Sims under its control all of which are rented from private residents
2 Sims have been developed and have residents paying weekly to stay on money corp. Sims, monkey corp. Sims are a touch above the rest offering prim bonuses, relaxed covenants and full support to all residents. These Sims are at over 95% occupancy.
The Sims currently bring in a monthly revenue of L$415,000, with expenses of L$240,000
The 3rd sim is a developed island with a wealth of amenities; it is available to all residents for private use for functions/parties and is also open to the public when not in use by residents.
Proposal for AVC
For the record I would like to state that AVC has No net tangible assets to my knowledge, at least none that can be acquired. All it has currently is 30 million shares floating in oblivion.
Therefore I will start AVC from scratch, and regrettably accept no responsibility for any of its liabilities, including but not limited to "the bank"
I plan to take over as CEO and appoint Mike31 as Cheif Financial Officer.
I will give 1 million of my personal shares in Springboard Publications to AVC.
I will sell Monkey Corp to AVC for the outstanding shares owned by Jasper, Teana and Dorothy and any connected accounts, at this point I have no Idea how many that is exactly.
5 million will be held by AVC of which 1 million will be sold to raise capital, 1 million I will keep for day trading to boost AVC's profits. The majority of the remaining shares will go to myself and some to the new management team.
Therefore AVC will consist of
1million Springboard shares
Monkey Corporation
This will form a solid base for the company, meaning increasing dividends and a strengthening share price.
75% of profits will be paid as dividends, 25% will be retained for new projects and ventures. No salaries will be paid to anyone, including myself, I will only make money from dividends, like the rest of you, and so it’s in my interest to make the company perform.
AVC will continue as a Venture capital company and will assist residents realise their SL potential. This will be done in a way such that AVC will hold masses of shares in a diverse mix of companies, receiving dividends from theses companies, and also revenue from day trading in the shares. Should the price in these companies be right, we will aim to raise 1 million in cash per company we set up, this will be paid as a dividend to the share holders
In time, we hope to start 1 new venture per month.
It will become a benchmark on which all other companies will be judged, it will reach out and spread across the grid, it will become one of the largest and most stable companies in SL or monkeys don’t eat bananas!
If the opporutnity presents itself AVC would buy out CGI thus saving it from certain doom.
WHY am I doing this?
So many of us have invested heavily into this business by way of buying shares, yes the company is in tatters, yes the shares have a nominal value, but with hard work and determination, I know that I can build these companies back up and strengthen our investments.
The economy has had one disaster after another, investor confidence is at an all time low, and we are on the verge of a complete crash, if this company falls the effect would be devastating! But, if we can save it... who knows what the future holds.
In a virtual world where no one seems to give a damn, with a scammer around every corner and behind every phantom tree... Someone has to step up to the plate and make a difference; I believe that someone is me.
The end... or is it the beginning?
Monkey Canning
CEO Monkey Corp - because it’s YOUR Second Life
About Frank Corsi and PatrickJ Ah, we have this piece of info. No comment from us, it's passed along verbatim. Source: Tobia Forcella, VSTEX Company CEO:
SLEC Meeting 9/24/07 6:37 pm sl time
Intlibber Brautigan, Patrickj Ah, Bogart Beck, Kaddan Yue, Cliff Eclipse, Lindsay Druart, Arbitrage Wise, Cocky Dagger, Xavier Mohr, SkyRanger Hammerer, Travis Ristow, Tobia Forcella
Patrickj Ah: I will call this meeting to order
Patrickj Ah: TJ and Fiona are on vacation and not able to join us tonight
Patrickj Ah: We have a quorum, however, we will limit the action items to a few areas... mainly membership
Patrickj Ah: With this whole Jasper fiasco, ppl are a little ticked and confidence is dropping off. We need now more than ever offer our services to regain some of that confidence and I got the short end of the stick myself but that only make me want to press forward with the SLEC and hope to God that there is another agency that wants to take on bank regulation. I also lost a chunk in the bank too
BNT and CGI. Due to the nature of the issue, we believe we should disclose this piece of information, a business conversation between Intlibber Brautigan and Tobia Forcella (VSTEX Company CEO).
Record date: approx September 27, 2007
[19:10] IntLibber Brautigan: heya tobia
[19:10] Tobia Forcella: hi Mr IntLibber
[19:11] IntLibber Brautigan: As you likely know, we put in a bid to merge CGI into BNT
[19:11] IntLibber Brautigan: however Capex, in an attempt to sabotage us, delisted us from capex
[19:11] IntLibber Brautigan: due to our plans to open an exchange of our own in several weeks
[19:12] IntLibber Brautigan: We would like to temporarily list on vstex, to merge CGI into us, and to provide trading to our stockholders, until our exchange opens
CGI merger. This is from a group notice (CGI shareholders)
Date: September 29, 2007
Group Notice From: Marc Attenborough
The Results are in. I have audited the results of the recent vote regarding the merger of CGI and BNT. I have tallied the results that I have revieved and at this point over 80% of the outstanding shares - excluding Jasper & Payday have voted in favor of the merger.
Please note that I hold no shares of either company and was brought in as an objective 3rd party.
The details we still have of those past times are far from being complete and are very fragmented across different types of locations and media. We were in our early days and we were missing archival and storing policies as the ones we have now. Also we could not be aware of the monster hiding in the dark, so to speak.
Samantha Goldflake - Director
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations
http://www.vstex.net
Thanks for the info Sam.
Thanks for the info Sam. It's nice to also see that VSTEX has developed archival and storing policies. This should help out with future questions.
Correct Sam
But.. Patrickj had 80% of CGI, so what vote was there? Marc was true in saying 80% voted for the deal.
If you exclude Patrickj from the vote then what was the outcome?
For what reason would Intlibber want the cgi merger?
TO GET ALL THE MONEY... lol cant anyone see this?
Look at the cause and effects
I told Tobia to give all my shares to Patrickj.
After I left Patrickj said he didnt want avc, and then moved all the assets to BNT with this merger.
Who was to benifit from the merger, only Intlibber.
Damm, why nobody can see this?
Read thru this Bull Sh..t press release.
CGI was not the owner of the land.
---------------------------------------------
CGI Merger Complete
As of this afternoon, the merger of Countless Galaxies into Brautigan & Tuck Holdings is now complete. All shares other than those held by Jasper Tizzy or Paydayloan Lindman, or their alts, have been swapped in a trade of 2 BNT shares for every 3 CGI shares. Final dispersal was over 3.2 million shares of BNT to CGI investors.
The mainland assets of CGI have been liquidated. This accounts for approximately 220,000 square meters of mainland left to CGI after Jasper Tizzy's disappearance (over 650,000 square meters were held by CGI a month prior, indicating a rather massive selloff by Tizzy.
Proceeds of this liquidation amounted to approximately 1.6 million L$ at an average price of 6.5 L$ per square meter, slightly above SL average sale prices for the month. Capital from these sales went into several major projects of BNT: The Ancapistan Capital Exchange and http://www.ancapex.net, as well as the complete revamping, replacement, and rebranding of My Second Bank into BNT Financial (http://www.bntfinancial.com), as well as the further development of bntholdings.com, and the merger of Global Credit into BNT.
BNT Holdings has now completed four major mergers of companies into it: Mind the Box, M2B, Global Credit, and CGI. All of these, as well as the launch of ACE, represent key components of BNT's long term plan to become a dominant estate company in SL, and eventually launch our own independent grid, the Extropia Grid, next year.
To their credit, the stockholders of CGI have played a key role in helping to ensure that plan moves forward, as they have now become BNT shareholders, and we welcome them to the BNT family. We congratulate them, as well as lead shareholder Patrickj Ah in leading CGI to making this decision. They are already seeing the fruits of that decision in the stock price of BNT on the ACE exchange.
I thank you and congratulate you all on your wisdom and ability to see and appreciate the vision of BNT.
IntLibber Brautigan
CEO, BNT Holdings
Reply
TY Ash for keeping an open mind, I never inteded for a mess to appear. Im not trying to shift the blame. But this is exactly what happened. I am only telling the truth, and have been saying the exact same thing since I left.
If you read all my postings you will see the answers.
The tier due to LL, I had converted the L$ to USD to pay LL, and then bought L$ and paid back bank members with it.
I also sold land and paid bank members, I left the land that was rented and had paying renters.
CGI was ONLY land manager for the land paid for with Bnak Deposits. The land was in the CGI group, since I managed both CGI and AVC, I didnt want renters in the avc group, since it was for sharehgolders, and didnt want them in the bank group since they could rez in the bank locations.
When a bank customer wold ask what we did to make money back on the deposits, we said rental income. From the 28 mainland sims we had built as small cities with homes, stores, offices etc...
To say it was all CGI land, is a not correct, land CGI managed was paid for with bank deposits.
I left behind everything I had, and if Pat didnt split it up with everyone, what can I do now. I cant pay people with assets I dont have anymore.
Who gained from all the assets I left behind?
Only Intlibber who got all the assets for trade of BNT shares, and the avc and bank people got nothing.
Oh BTW pat had 80% of CGI so he didnt need any vote from anyone to give it all to BNT. The vote of CGI was a front, everyone was yelling no deal and he did it anyway. He did not have 80% of AVC, and AVC shareholders would have not approved this merger.
Just because the land was in the cgi group, he used that as an excuse to say it was all CGI land. Not true. It was paid for with bank deposits.
Should I have moved all the land into avc group and then left SL? Now i know that was what I should have done, but I trusted pat the president of the company from the start, to do the right thing.
Pat was not in it to make himself anything, he used to buy sims for people with his money and not ask for anything in return. He also had a few sims he let people have land in them for free. He was not the kind of guy to scam or hurt anyone. I know it was the pressure of Intlibber to get him to help save the land and business with using the assets I left behind.
Intlibber told me in skype not to get upset, jasper is gone and people will forget about me in a month. But I was in sl-newpsper fighting all the way, but the sl-newspaper only wanted to say "well jasper why did you give all the bank members assets to some cgi, was cgi your friend or something" LMAO CGI was my company also. They didnt want to see the facts. Intlibber is a top sponsor there.
Obsession
Why do you always accuse the WSE of being a scam. They are the only exchange to constantly tell their users since day one that its not real, they add disclaimers and have a clear terms of service that explain the terms of use. They had signs inworld clearly stating the conditions of joining which they placed right next to the ATM. The ATM also told all users who join that they are agreeing to the WSE Terms of Service. They have always had clear information about what the service is that they are providing users. You constantly write about the WSE on this blog as if it were real when its not and the owners have said that since day one. Clearly its a game and we as users risk having less linden dollars in return for the potential of more linden dollars. If WSE close the site to upgrade then good it shows they are making an effort to improve the service they are providing their users rather than staying with the same site they had built when they first started. The WSE is a great way for people to learn how to trade, gain similar experiences to what the real market is like and its is fun. I used to enjoy reading Your2ndPlace but the constant posts about WSE and the other banks or markets which say nothing but the same old stories over and over again is boring and frankly waisting our time as readers. Your a blog on second life so focus on second life and its great attributes, so far all this blog does is constantly tell people why not to use Second life. Try giving us quality news about inworld activities from businesses and organizations throughout second life. Keep talking about the same old stories and your articles will fall on deaf ears. I want to read about interesting fun things that second life has to offer or is this blog just a lobby group of writers who don't research or investigate anything and therefore have no new stories about sl business, events, educators or what progress linden lab makes on a regular basis.
Enjoy your holiday
We all need some, once every while. I am looking forward to mine.
Samantha Goldflake - Director
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations
http://www.vstex.net
I dunno... I mean, I read
I dunno... I mean, I read your2ndplace's every post. I enjoy the blog.
I read every post regarding the WSE, and all those bank stock exchange scam posts EVERY time on here... I dunno why.... because... I know they're all scams, they are NOT news, I have no interest in hearing updates about how they became more scammy...yet, I still read the blog.
I guess what I'm saying is that the writers on this blog (led by Nobody fugazi) have so much potential to follow real points of interest about SL business and finance... but instead in continues to perpetuate that stock markets in SL have a glimmer of having a future ... and I guess it's cause you have money invested.
I do not have any money invested. I followed the WSE and the other stock exchange stories (all the stories, the fake death, the 'doin the best we can' 'the upgrade to new version') ALL SCAMS! .... now... it's done, it's old, everyone seems to know stock markets and banks in SL are 100% scams even if the creators are trying to be good human beings.. ....except for your2ndplace, this blog seems to actually redeem stock exchanges as they in plain site steal people's money in a confusing but simple way.
All Im suggesting for EVERY writer on this blog is to make a final declaration that these are ALL scams, stop getting involved, stop writing stories on the stock exchanges, unless you need to reitterate that they are scams... and possibly supply links and numbers on ways for us to have feds investigate so this shit can finally just close down.
In relation to your latest post about WSE.... as I read your2ndplace's posts about WSE and the others, I just see this site as becoming more gullible, more faith in the good of man, more naive. WSE is a fraud, they're not coming back to SL.. and their facebook scam is in the works. Do you want to be the ones to stop it? or do you want to just report on how many people get fooled out of more money?
Doubledown
Quick question from Anonymous2
Why do you keep announcing your departure? Strange.
On a more positive note: I actually do understand and appreciate what you are trying to do ... I would just approach it differently.
Enjoy the time off and hope to see ya back soon.
Good comments
"I read every post regarding the WSE, and all those bank stock exchange scam posts EVERY time on here... I dunno why...."
"...I guess it's cause you have money invested."
Addictive, isn't it? And no I don't have money invested in the open exchanges. Not now. And not because I don't want to, believe me. The biggest challenge to me as a writer is resisting the temptation to jump back into investing :) I see a future in the exchanges and I want to be a part of that. I agree that there are other issues in finance that need to be covered. I tried to get Del Demar on board, but she's resisted nicely :)
"Why do you keep announcing your departure? Strange."
I wondered if someone would call me on this. The simple answer is I'm an idealistic kid that cares about what he's trying to do here and a perception that letting his posts lapse without explaining it would be somewhat negligent.
So answer me this: Is it okay to let my posts lapse now and then while I focus on other things, without a clear explanation?
I'm not self-important, even if I come across that way. But I do see myself as having duties. Sometimes it's hard to see the lines between those two. Knowing how others feel about the above would be most beneficial indeed.
Edit: Anonymous2: I'd love to hear your perception of what I'm trying to do and how you'd do it differently. I'd prefer that you email me at KonnerMcDonnell@gmail.com or IM me inworld, but it's your call. And yes, I'd keep your identity a secret. :)
Edit 2: I think you once asked me to list who I thought you were. I'll list two guesses here: 1.Aldon Huffhines 2.Ben Duranske.
SL stock markets is a very flawed idea
The whole idea of stock markets in sl is flawed for so many reasons. Investors will lose all their money if they continue.
You can place your bets on that, these are amateurs. This is a stage that people go thru in life, later they will learn the lessons i hope.
How do i know, well i own a business and i went thru those stages.
As for the education arguement, if you really want education as a CEO to learn to run a business then use your own money. Its too easy for an amateur CEO to confuse new investors money with company profits. It happens all the time in rl. CNBC show American Greed has many examples. sl is no different.
When you use your own money you know its not a game.
For investors that want education, start your own business or learn to invest in rl. With all your sl investing you will find you still know very little about rl investing. How can it be a game to lose money.
This is a flawed idea. sl stock exchanges.
obi-wan.
Konner I posted this first without logging in, so there maybe 2 versions of same post, pls delete the anonymous one.
I can safely tell you that
I can safely tell you that these are very poor investments. The whole idea of stock markets in sl is flawed for so many reasons. I can also guarantee that at least most investors will make lose most of their money in it. And all their money if they continue.
You can place your bets on that, these are amatuers. This is a stage that people go thru in life, later they will learn the lessons i hope.
How do i know, well i own a business and i went thru those stages.
As for the education arguement, if you really want education as a CEO to learn to run a business then use your own money. Its too easy for an amateur CEO to confuse new investors money with company profits. It happens all the time in rl. CNBC show American Greed has many examples. sl is no different.
When you use your own money you know its not a game.
For investors that want education, start your own business or learn to invest in rl. With all your sl investing you will find you still know very little about rl investing. How can it be a game to lose money.
This is a flawed idea. sl stock exchanges.
obi-wan.
It's fine to not say
It's fine to not say anything and take a break. Some of the ppl who post here haven't done so in many months. I myself haven't really posted anything in a long while. I keep thinking about it wanting to do a piece on "SL Corporate Governance and Biz Ethics" but I can't seem to find the time to collect my thoughts and address everything. So I mainly write long comments and hijak others lol. Sry bout that. At any rate, take a break and enjoy yourself. You're only young once.
Thanks
I do appreciate that. I really do take pride in what I've done in the last few months. And like you said, I am a hard-charger. I don't claim to be an expert or the smartest guy in second life. The only claim I make is fierce dedication to things I agree to do. Do not lie or steal. Live up to your commitments.
It's been pointed out to me more than once that I treat these things with grave seriousness. And I do. I have lots of ideas and plans for SL in addition to everything I do in RL. The culmination of two has made me see the importance of limits and boundaries. It's funny to me that I learned that here instead of in my first year of law school ;) But I have no doubt it will pay off. Writing it in the article was probably a message to myself as much as it was to anyone else. At any rate, I'm not disappearing. Just toning it down a bit. And given this comment, don't expect another 'return' article. Instead of calling it a break, we'll just call it what it is: Pursuing a reasonable pace :)
On that note, I give credit where credit is due. Jeb Gibb has often criticized me for 'moving too fast.' Where my doings within SL is concerned, I strongly disagree. Where personal growth and sustainability is concern, I very much agree. Maybe that's the 'lesson' he keeps talking about.
Thanks to both your replies
Thanks to both your replies to me konner. actually my first comment ironically wasn't aimed at you. I've been reading this blog for i dunno how long, and Nobody was the one covering the bank world and the stocks world... so i was just used to him writing the stories.
But yeah, I applaud you and nobody and everyone here for the effort. And, if ya have to write a story about the stock and bank stuff in SL then go for it.
but, they are scams. there is no potential. you need to push that here rather than a 'benefit-of-the-doubt' attitude. Human nature is the cause for why EVERY single stock exchange will break down, no matter how reputable they are at the start of the project.
Consider LukeCornhole Vandersteal: before he began he was a smart young australian with a new ingenius idea.....
now, we all know he's a crook, thief, scammer.... but somehow on this blog... it's just being too naive if anyone thinks stock exchanges (ALL of EM) have any shot of being and staying legit. Someone who wants to run a stock exchange in SL isn't qualified. They don't get trust from that. Every stock exchange is fooling people into handing over money, and it is RL fraud, ALL CASES. Any single investor could bring these cases to court and win.
SIDE EXAMPLE: Sarah Nerd boldly posts news relating to land scams. Imagine if a scam took place, and the scammer continued to do it, and Sarah Nerd continued to post blogs saying "I hope the prearranged deal all stays legit"???? NO WAY.. She posts "SCAMMER SCAMMER LOOK OUT" Because ITS A SCAM!
So, again, I applaud your2ndplace and i applaud every single blogger. ....stock exchanges in SL. done, old, scams, people will eventually be going to jail for RL fruad..... lets talk about real financial and business news in SL.
Hm...
What do you consider 'real financial and business news in SL?'
Doesn't everything start out as a scam? Would we have the FDIC or SEC if people hadn't lost gobs of money or some executive hadn't fudged the spreadsheets? I agree that you can count on human nature to introduce the same ol' deviousness into new territory. Actually, I count on that. And it's why I write about the exchanges. The first day I visited the WSE I said to myself "Fortunes will be made and lost in this uncharted territory." But hell, it was always thus.
Me yelling "Scam" wouldn't stop people from investing. People were dropping tons of money into crappy companies before I even joined SL. People will dive right into the WSE trying to get 'deals' when it opens. I've written this group off. If I want to cater to any crowd, it's the intelligent investors that take the exchange for what it is - uncharted territory with zero regulation. They don't drop their paycheck into the exchanges, just some money they can afford to flush away. And even though the CEOs are bound by nothing beyond their 'honor,' no matter what their 'reputation,' these people still ask the hard questions, still take an active part in their investments. If anything I write can help that crowd make a better decision here or there? It's worth it. Completely.
When I joined SL, I found the WSE. I didn't know what I know now. There wasn't a log where LukeConnell Vandeverre explained how he felt about delisting companies at a whim. And now there is. And hopefully future intelligent investors that want to play this like a game won't make the mistakes I did because I already made them, wrote about them, and hope everyone can learn from them.
And one day..one fine day, someone's going to be the executive that tries the wrong stunt or the victim that loses enough money, hires the right attorney who can make the right case and won't settle, and then we'll have precedent. And maybe someday regulation. I've already hedged my bets on who is going to do it, how it's going to happen, and what it's going to lead to. Ben Duranske has theories on why regulation is inevitable as well.
If I'm wrong and it all goes up in smoke, I'll still have had the pleasure of writing these articles, learning a thing or two, and having a few people enjoy them.
Konner hearts LukeConnell
I say this tongue and cheek obviously. Your comment "intelligent investors that take the exchange for what it is - uncharted territory with zero regulation. They don't drop their paycheck into the exchanges, just some money they can afford to flush away."
This reminds me of a brief conversation I had once with LukeConnell where he expressed (and I'm paraphrasing) "I'd much rather have a larger user base of folks playing with smaller amounts of lindens than the current situation of a smaller group with some people placing larger sums." I interpreted this to mean that he preferred to not have the hassle of a bunch of greedy idiots placing in huge amounts of lindens and as a logical consequence turning what should have been a fun simulation into a stressful nightmare with all the accompanying slander (which is also something that can be taken to court). In some ways it sounds like you are both in agreement.
In your view, when does personal player accountability factor in?
Should exchange owners place a cap on what any one avatar can "invest"?
As always trying to take the other side of the argument because no one else seems to. I guess I'm watching the watchers ;)
Anonymous2
Get a user name :P
If you're calling yourself Anonymous2 and routinely posting as such, then doesn't it defeat the purpose of being 'anonymous?' And anyone could claim to be anonymous2 now. Certainly there will be a 'second anonymous person' in other articles. Difference between being a whistleblower and just lazy, dear sir/ma'am.
To answer your question: My statement isn't based on numbers, but archetypes. If there are 5,000 investors, then I'd prefer them to be 5,000 investors that don't make the same kinds of mistakes over and over again. 5,000 investors that scrutinize. As I said, yelling 'scam' won't be effective because people will still invest.
Now you introduce this 'LukeConnell Vandeverre' of the past. Was he the same guy before ambition creeped in? Did he get swept up in the prime directive of all species and by proxy their enterprises - survival? I don't know. And by delisting certain companies did he spare them the growth complex they might experience in the future? That's an interesting notion, really, that "everything LukeConnell Vandeverre throws away turns to gold." These are good things to discuss in a moral philosophy course.
But I think we're on the same page where human nature is concerned. I only really trust humans to be humans. And I accept that it's really hard to see yourself as the person you've become versus the person you've been or wanted to be. Lots of mechanisms in place to prevent the damage that would cause us.
As much as I point to external regulation to help us, I can't help but look to Casper Trebuchet or Delicious Demar, people that could have run but have not. Demar's written on how she reconciled the temptation to run. And further consideration of that made me realize that all of my preemptive attacks on my own 'potential biases' also prevents the growth to be had through 'seeing and controlling the biases/temptations.' Biases and temptation always exist. Nothing will be regulated to such a point that there will never be an opportunity for the unscrupulous to exploit laws/rules. Call it social Darwinism if you want.
From now on I'm just going to answer the comment directly. Letting my mind wander always leads to these lengthy responses. :)
The delisting meme
Konner, you and others use the term "delisted" as if to imply that an exchange owner has stolen proceeds from a company (and by default the shareholders). But isn't it normally the case that when an IPO is completed 97% (as an example) of the proceeds go to the CEO of the IPO company and the exchange takes it's 3%(or whatever)fee? 97% goes to the IPO company avatar. Therefore, an IPO CEO can do whatever he/she wants including staying with that exchange, moving to another exchange or dealing with the shareholders privately. Removing a company from an exchange doesn't necessarily mean that the exchange has walked off with any proceeds.
I know that there are exceptions however (CEO's that leave their funds within the exchange "bank" until required.) But let's be clear on the actual "consequences" of delistment. Is it possible that certain CEO's want to shift the blame to the accepted boogey man?
As always trying to take the other side of the argument because this all reminds me of the Salem witch trials. Here's some history for you. Did you know that there was a benefit for the scumbags that would accuse people of being witches? If the accused were declared witches and burned at the stake THE ACCUSER HAD A RIGHT TO THE "WITCHES" PROPERTY. Human nature indeed ;)
Anonymous2 - watching the watchers
PS: Don't stress about my choice of name. It's partly because I'm monitoring an SL finance story that will make LukeConnell look like Mother Theresa in comparison ... if it unfolds as I suspect it will. Don't get me wrong. Where fraud exists I am all for justice prevailing.
Hm
"PS: Don't stress about my choice of name. It's partly because I'm monitoring an SL finance story that will make LukeConnell look like Mother Theresa in comparison ... if it unfolds as I suspect it will. Don't get me wrong."
Ok. Best wishes with that.
I'm Anonymous too!
I'm anonymous too! If anyone is interested in Luke Connell you can simply read his bio:
http://hopecapital.wikidot.com/luke-connell
We are Anonymous. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Because none of us are as cruel as all of us.
Luke is your hero but...
Luke is your hero, but can you answer why the WSE upgrade has taken 6 months and still going?
How much is your WSE investment worth today?
Who will buy your WICs if WSE opens?
Who will buy your WTF?
What will happen to all the WTF wse is accumulating, Do you think Luke will ever be able to back them and with what?
Can you even attempt to answer any one of the above.
Ginko was defended till it was converted to WTF, surprising i dont see Ginko promoters anymore, not sure what happened to them.