June 7, 2008 by Sarah Nerd
I've gotten a few messages lately asking me what my intentions are with the WSE. People asking me if I intend to stay or leave. Someone even offering me there real life phone number to call and discuss there 2850 shares. From things I have seen and heard from Luke but am not in a position to discuss openly, yes I am very confident that the WSE will be reopening and I have every intention of staying there. Dividends during the closure have and will be used for growth and covering slow rental periods and unexpected expense like the recent mainland value crash. I have a lot of ups and downs dealing in a sl game as risky as land but I think I have showed staying power and the ability to adapt and get past the hard times. I think thats why many invested in me. They were confident I wasn't going anywhere and wasn't the type of person to buckle and close shop when things are down. The WSE gave me an oppurtuity that allowed for wonderful growth of my second life company. They also treat me well and let me run it the way I see fit. I have no intention of uprooting myself and my shareholders at the moment. I also have no interest in arguing with others about the way feel about
the wse or what they feel I need to do. I'm doing what I feel is best
for my company, my shareholders, and my investments. Anyone upset with my choices or the way I run my company are more than welcome to contact me and I will see what we can arrange to buy there shares back over time. This is after all a game and I don't want it causing anyone to much stress or worry. Theres enough of that in real life. I will reevaluate periodically in the future but at this time thats where I stand.
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Best of luck
As one of your shareholders with all of a few dollars more worth of shares I've given up hope of seeing any return on the investment, but I'm a gambling man and some you win and some you lose. This is a long 45 days.
Fair play to you Sarah for making this statement and for your offer, I hope it works out, but I don't trust the guy calling the shots on this, I do however trust you.
Anyone upset with my choices or the way I run my company
It's not your company Sarah, the company belongs to the shareholders.
Not a lot of respect being given to those who trusted you with their hard earned lindens, is there.
As for the WSE, anyone showing any form of loyalty to that thief Vandeverre should be committed. If he's going to shut things down for 5 months fine, but at the very least funds held by the WSE on behalf of traders should be returned. I know why Vandeverre doesn't do it, he has no money. The WSE bank account was emptied when he was scammed $L3.2 Million. This is why he is expelling people for breaching "WSE terms and conditions", so he can keep their money and get it to the point when he can open the WSE again. Fraudster.
In case you didn't know,
In case you didn't know, Sarah Nerd holds a majority of shares in SNE. This makes it her company. Also she shows a lot of respect to the other shareholders by continuing her business despite all the difficulties over the last several months. The risk/reward ratio of virtual real estate investing keeps getting bigger and all SNE investors should thank her for continuing the company rather than cashing out whatever nest egg she has accrued.
Land Shepherd
Well thats why I said anyone
Well thats why I said anyone unhappy should contact me and we would work on a way to buy back shares. No matter what I do someone won't be happy. I just need to do what I feel is best for everyone as a whole. And as the person who has run this a log time (years) before the wse, and as the largest shareholder and the person who handles the day to day work and makes the choices, yes I do see it as my company. Others hold a piece of my company and I do share a portion of my company with others , but yes it is my company. So like stated above, if this game makes you so upset, I don't want you playing. Please let me know your name an I'll check into how many shares you have in me and we can work something out. If you just want to turn this into an argument or pissing match I'm not interested. If you want to work on a real solution for your personal stake in me than I'm more than willing to work with you. Thats the best I'm able to offer anyone.
It's the shareholders company
When you list your company it ceases being your company and becomes the shareholders company. If you were not willing to let go of your company, then you shouldn't have listed it, plain and simple. There, I just pissed 15 feet, do you want to see if you can do 16??
I can call it anybody's
I can call it anybody's company you'd like me to to, and it doesn't change the fact that I have the responsibility of making the final choices. Like I said Anonymous, just let me know who you are and I'll look into your holdings with me and we can work on a solution that will make us both happy. Otherwise not sure what I can do for you.
And as a shareholder...
You have rights - as does the CEO who you invested in. The truth of the matter is that WSE is at issue, not SNE.
Sarah Nerd is the major shareholder in the company as well - as Land Shepherd pointed out beforehand.
I'm not saying that I agree with Sarah's choice - but what I am saying is that Sarah is in a position where she has to make hard choices and where she cannot please everyone.
And saying, or implying, that Sarah is not respectful of her shareholders seems pretty unfair to me. I've attended shareholder meetings she's held, and have yet to see her treat someone unfairly.
Second Life Consultant
Makes sense to me
Luke and I had a long talk before DDE delisted, and I was then and remain convinced that WSE will reopen with a new platform and lots of potential. My reasons for delisting were my own, but it was definitely something that could have gone either way at the time.
It's annoying that the exchange has been closed for so long - I still have a significant sized account in there, money that has essentially been sitting useless for all that time - but there's no point in raging against the machine.
At any rate, Sarah, best of luck with it - I hope that the WSE continues to be the right place for SNE to do business. As I have often said - any issues I have had with that exchange certainly have had nothing to do with the people running businesses there - you are a testament to staying power and success in SL by any measure.
There have been quite a few times during my stay on the WSE and afterward when I wanted to do nothing more than blast it and its owner - to speak out about the things that I thought were wrong with the whole scene. A few times I guess I did. But I realized that, while I was on WSE, it was self-destructive, and since I have left it, it would be A) probably a waste of time, and B) if not a waste of time, then potentially damaging to the companies that still remain. I count a number of the CEO's that have companies there as friends, and I don't really want to be pissing on them in order to make myself feel better.
I am not really a fan of WSE any more, for a lot of reasons. But I can tell you that going it alone it significantly more work and is very limiting in terms of flexibility with shareholders. And I am not sure that any of the other exchanges offer more than what WSE will be offering. I certainly wouldn't try to convince you to change your mind - the business you are in is somewhat protected from anything that happens, since all of the property and assets are held outside the exchange, which gives you a lot of security - unlike some of the other market funds and financial companies.
So yeah - rock on and good luck.
dd
I'm Happy to know that there are a few people that have Hope!
As I read Sarah blog and I got to the end and read Delicious Demar comment I felt it was necessary to comment on this topic. I'm very much confident and know for sure the WSE will once reign in glory where it should be. Many have said things about the WSE that were very vulgar and would be really consider unethically. I'm a big fan of the WSE and always have and I've had my doubts but it never crosses my mind that that the WSE will run away with the funds it holds.
Many may say that the WICS is a bad deal and it is only being used because Luke is trying to run away with the Lindens. Whether you know it or not those wics will be able to be sold for real usd like how the lindex is ran. I'm not going to say much more as I've seen and heard and talk with Luke on a regular basis so I know there is updates being done and whether you like it or not most of the critics are people who have never used the WSE. Then you have some who use it but complains at the same time but those will be right back there trading as soon as it opens back up which and truly is baffling to me alot but who cares we will see what the end result will be.
Best Regards,
Jeb Gibb
Vstex comment
From the WSE Home Page
WSE REDEFINING BUSINESS IN THE VIRTUAL WORLD (September 09, 2007)
"[...] The World Stock Exchange has now completed Stage 1 of WSE 4.0
[...] We expect to complete the final stages of WSE 4.0 within 14 days"
Yes, the topic is SNE.
Anyway whatever the reason, it's just scary to think that an exchange could just shut down "for upgrades" anytime and come back... sometimes. For sure, after months. This is not SNE fault, of course.
Honestly speaking, knowing that "when the exchange will be back investors will get more features" does not help much.
Samantha Goldflake - Director
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations
http://www.vstex.net
Put your money where your mouth is, Gibb.
Sarah's decision to stay with the WSE is her own. She offered to buy back shares of people who want out. Del Demar left for reasons that her own. Company owners have to do what they think is best.
Now exactly where does WSE Concierge Jeb Gibb fit into this equation? Your stake in the WSE is your own. You're not responsible for anyone else's money, and you work for Luke. If you're wrong- oh darn! If you're in the position to defend Luke, to refute Del Demar or make claims about WSE's definite future, then you'd surely be willing to put up the money to reimburse every HCL/WTF shareholder if things don't go as you expect. Put your money where your mouth is.
"...whether you like it or not most of the critics are people who have never used the WSE"
You don't have to use the WSE to be a critic. You just have to read what Luke is saying.
"[20:01] LukeConnell Vandeverre: Konner WSE isn't real, its not real life, if the WSE decides to delist due to certain reasons it can, there doesn't need to be a confidentiality agreement, its the virtual world ok"
I feel no need to go further.
km
Your the Last one who Should be moving there lips.
Konner you are such a funny character thats all you've seem to become in the what the last five months you've been in SecondLife. Your just like a sand castle on the beach that will be there one day but the next is blown off shore. You are a unstable bomb just ready to be explode and what is so funny about you is that the fact is you don't know what makes you happy. One day you are so called a investor and the next I'm a SL finance Journalist your just merely a someone who decide to come in here mess with others whether you know it or not but every time you open your mouth to talk about frivolous things you make evident that you use big words to hide behind. I don't know where you get off on talking about put your money where your mouth is all I simply did was agree with Sarah If you don't like it pack your virtual suitcase and move on. Oh yeah another thing do you have a background in finance or are just a law student who gets drunk and listens to Akon.
Best Regards,
Jeb Gibb
Dear Jeb Gibb AKA Johnnie Goff
First, I have every reason to talk. When I spoke with Vandeverre as a member of LEM's board of directors, I came here to write about it. I knew at the time doing so would jeopardize my personal WSE account. And it did. Did I give a damn? No. Why? While I'll tell you it's because the losses paled in comparison to those suffered by shareholders I held a duty to, I'll take it one further: I have a spine.
[19:47] Jeb Gibb: Now you should have enough pride to just leave it alone and run it course.
Well, I guess we know where you stand. Wait..let's back it up a bit.
You are correct that I've been moving around a bit since my brief time in SL. It's true, I've been finding my way. You on the other hand, have an avatar for every situation. Not to mention you're LukeConnell Vandeverre's effete sycophant when he's standing nearby, but just as critical when he isn't. May it please the court, I submit exhibit A into evidence.
Now Johnnie/Jeb or whoever you are. You've told me on countless occasions that you have access to each user's WSE account. You see what nobody else does. Every time you talk to a 'Linden' I have to hear about it. You've tried very hard to impress me and tell me that you're someone important. From day one, before Y2P, you were trying to tell me how act, work, and behave. Trying to be LukeConnell Vandeverre to my Jeb Gibb, sir? No thanks.
This was a cute attempt to attack my 'reputation(To Konner McDonnell: Virtual reputation = heh)' but c'mon. If i don't like it, what do you think I'll do? I'll respond right here. With the utmost hope that your reading comprehension level far surpasses your lackluster writing skills and apparent inability to form an intelligent argument, I'd direct your attention to the list of names at the top right.
As to RL, Akon is okay, but I'm more of a Kanye West fan. In return I'm compelled to ask: Are you as two-faced and servile in RL as you are in SL? Run along, Jeb. I've no more attention to give you. Go ask Daddy Luke to make it all better.
Best,
KM
How to blow up your journalism career
Konner, keep publishing everyone's private conversations! You will soon find that no one will want to discuss a thing with you. This is why the regulation that you want is so scary ... people like you will be the "deciders" ;) Pay attention when your professor discusses attorney/client privilege (assuming that you really are a law student).
You haven't learned your lesson yet.
Are you just born dumb or did your mom drop you on your head when you were a baby as I've still haven't realize why you continue to login into SecondLife. No one wants you here and obviously you don't want to be here you've wasted alot of good space here on your2ndplace blogging about senses less things. There you go once again picking up others trash and trying to expose it too the public. I've got no reason to hide it isn't like I'm stralling the fence you can't seem to wonder do you want to be a advisor for a company or do you want to spend your day blogging about others life.
I don't appreciate you putting my business out there you don't need to worry about what are my alt accounts just worry about how your going to get out of Law School in one piece that's if you haven't dropped out yet. I'm not even going to lie about it Johnnie is my alt and I pay for the account every month so I'm entitled to have a alternative account just in case you didn't know. I've never told you I had access to WSE files so thats another lie you told so far nor do I want to even impress you.
Konner You are not paying none of my bills nor are you putting money in my pocket why would I want to impress a non-compensated law student who drinks his life away and tells imaginative stories in which you conjured up in your dreams. As for the copybot comment about me acting like Luke you've once again don't have anything else to do but troll the blogs try cracking a real law book open and read it for once and stop with the I've created every word in the dictionary theory.
Hehe.
You know, Jeb...
Prokofy Neva said similar things about me. I'm still here, though I don't log in very often these days as RL has me quite busy. Even so, one of the things I'm waiting on is for WSE to get it's act together and stop trying to browbeat critics who have every right to question what is going on.
After all, WSE has been closed for 6 months. Are you still drawing pay?
Second Life Consultant
What Konner said
And Jeb, ermm - i was decidedly NOT complaining. I'm glad that you commented - but I think it's just off base to suggest that people saying negative things about the WSE are "unethical". People have opinions - some of the them are ill considered or ignorant, but we all have our bullshit filters, and can make our own judgements about who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. Mine is tingling right now, as a matter of fact...
I certainly never suggested that anyone was running off with anything. I agree that wouldn't fit with Luke's history and personality at all. I know that there are some forums where speculation like that is made routinely - but mostly from people who really don't have a clue.
As for your comment, "I'm very much confident and know for sure the WSE will once reign in glory where it should be". I very much expect you are right. Just not sure you and I have the same idea about exactly where that is...
dd
Hello this is about SNE
Ok this is getting out of hand, this post is about SNE and what Sarah is doing for her company and share holders. Not about Konner and Jeb.
Who cares which one of you can write or read better, who cares which one of you thinks has the biggest prim penis (you can get a bigger one at Sarah Nerd's Freebie Paradise), who cares how many alts either of you have. Maybe Jeb is an account that works for WSE but Johnnie is a personal account. Either way to put that out there just so you can feel better is just wrong. You both need to grow up and just report the facts. Don't get it twisted.
Sarah Nerd has the authority to remove comments.
If she feels these comments need to be removed, she can do it. I do not feel that my comments are 'wrong.' As an aside, since I didn't post it anywhere else - I drink maybe half a dozen times a year. :)
I don't remove anything
I don't remove anything unless its pure spam or pure crap. I just try to go along with Mr Nobodys view that everyone has a right to say what they feel. If I ever see a comment I'm unsure about I leave it alone for Nobody to decide because it's his website.
Roger that.
Given the earlier attempt at intervening, I want to point out three general things and one passing comment:
1. If your aimless rant invokes information(i.e. the mentioning of Akon and a joke I made about drinking, which I only made a one specific place) gained from an alternate identity, you've asked that identity to be disclosed. This follows if you take the argument to "real life." This wasn't an easy decision.
2. I'm quite capable of controlling my own behavior. I'll simply call your intention to the my prose versus that of my detractor.
3. The "epeen/prim penes" interjection is nothing less than archaic. All people have egos. The purpose of making this statement is nothing less than an attempt at derailment. Considering the painstaking thought I put into each and every thing I write(ego), when such is pointed at me(ego), I take it as grave disrespect(ego).
Finally, all the arguments made use of this belief that "nobody cares what Konner thinks. You do this work for free. You're nothing." I will simply say that I picked up the fight as I have over the last four months because I saw it as sorely needed. It's a pain in the ass. And yes, I do it for free. But if the above claims are correct, and nobody cares, time will show it. And I'll simply fade away like Queen Maab. I don't think of myself as anyone special.
Last I've to say on this - sorry for hijacking your article, SN.
KM
TOS/CS
Mr Konner McDonnell;
Mr Gibb has every right to file a Report in Second Life agenst you for breaking our rules of "Disclosure"
as shown in our "CS"
Here let me point this out where it says such:
4. Disclosure
Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Lives. Sharing personal information about a fellow Resident --including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, and real-world location beyond what is provided by the Resident in the First Life page of their Resident profile is a violation of that Resident's privacy. Remotely monitoring conversations, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without consent are all prohibited in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums.
I would really Like to see you learn afew rules and show some respect to your fellow Second Life Members.
As far as this I wish you the best.
Why give 1 exchange the monopoly over your company and owners ?
That's the question i've asked afew ceo's
Why list on just one exchange ? Why not do double/triple/quadriple listing, there are now 3 exchanges wich are live, that may well change. There's absolutely no guarantee that an exchange will not just disappear (and it has nothing to do with intentions of ppl running an exchange).
Personally i'd like to see SNE traded at both ISE,SLCAPEX and VSTEX all at the same time. You'd attract a larger croud of investors, and lower their risk of an exchange doing an "upgrade", and there would be no discussion of "we like you to move from here to here because we like this exchange better than that one".
Complicated ? Not really, just divide number of shares by number of exchanges and same with monthly reports.
Best of all, you avoid ending up in discussion with Luke because you're not delisting, you're expanding your horizons.
Take that into consideration,
and btw. i feer that all i have left on wse is part of history not becuase of the management but because of public opinion.
One company, one exchange
We would refuse the listing application from a "splitted" company. Listing those companies would not be in the best interest of shareholders. A company listed on another exchange could instead list a branch with us, provided they are set up as separated companies. A parent/holding and one or more subsidiaries.
As it happens in RL.
Samantha Goldflake - Director
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations
http://www.vstex.net
And Sam, you're wrong about
And Sam, you're wrong about RL also, thats real bad, in RL you can find many companies dual listed, for example Statoil is listed on OSEXBX and NYSE same with Fronline and many more.
Do you homework Sam, i expected better from you than this.
Dear anonymous, thanks for
Dear anonymous, thanks for the correction.
Our position stands, though. We don't believe SL to be a viable environment, for dual (let alone triple and more) listings.
Best regards,
Samantha Goldflake - Director
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations
http://www.vstex.net
Sam, with all due respect...
how do you know ?
I am a shareholder of many companies and at one point i was the largest shareholder at WSE (in size)...
You are not in position to say wether that is in shareholders interrest or not, your simply provide a service for (us) shareholders.
My point beeing having thesame company listed on several exchanges gives the shareholder a way to decide wich exchange he/she likes best, instead of beeing forced to use 1 exchange over the other not because of the exchange but rather because of the company, that is wrong.
Let me say it again, and with all due respect i have huge respect for what you and rest of the Vstex team has done to provide an exchange, but
you are not in the position to judge what's in the shareholders interrest. Luke tried that, and see what happened, the shareholders own the companies and they own you, either live with it or find a better hobby.
No offence intended, i just wanted to express myself as crystal clear as possible, hope you understand my philosophy about how the sl-exchange structure works, there are no executives there are just owners, the executives are slaves to their owners, if they dont like it fine, find a better hobby.
I hope it makes sense, if not let me know :)
Best regards,
Andy Grant
Ok Andy, you're entitled to
Ok Andy, you're entitled to your opinion. However no company already listed on another exchange will be listed with us. Ever. That's our policy.
And yes, we believe that's in the interest of shareholders. That's our opinion.
(this is an addition)I read you and I do see your point. Anyway we do believe that most of SL "investors" have from no to little clue about investing, or looking after an investment. That's why, in a role of benevolent dictatorship, we "decide" what's good for them and what's not. Lacking any sort of regulatory body on top of the SL exchanges, we decide our own policies. Dual, triple and so on listing are a no for us. (end of the addition)
Best regards,
Samantha Goldflake - Director
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations
http://www.vstex.net
You're entitled to yours aswell
You're entitled to yours aswell, but you might wanna update this on your website:
"Community users decide which financial ideas can be accepted in the share market."
Since you've chosen the path of WSE, to decide for the Community what's best for them.
http://vstex.net/stockexchange
This would go well with the excellent level of transparency you provide in most other cases.
No offence intentended, just a word of advice.
No offence taken. We always
No offence taken. We always separate business issues from personal ones and unlike someone else we don't delist companies or lock accounts because of criticism or negative comments posted on the web.
The one and only thing I don't understand is why some people keeps using the WSE as a term of comparison, putting us at the same level.
As far as I know top-bottom management/regulation is applied from SLCAPEX and ACE as well. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me.
Using the WSE, an exchange which has been closed for months because of "software upgrades", an exchange controlled by a company (Hope Capital) which defaulted on its own bonds, an exchange that... (I could add a few more things here, all well known), well this does not seem fair to me.
Thanks for pointing out that page of our website. We're well aware about it and we've been pondering over it a lot (and still are). I am currently writing a blog post for Second Chaos about the "benevolent dictatorship" issue. I'll update this comment later with the direct link.
I don't know how much closely you've been following us over the time. Some people did, like Aldon Hynes and Konner McDonnell. Nobody Fugazi knows a lot about us, too. So I don't know if you're speaking out of a principle, direct observation of us, or both. I am a woman of principles, yet I know that not all the times they do work, or can be applied. This of course is my opinion.
At the end, the VSTEX is a commercial platform. People (CEOs, investors) are using it. We take that as a sign of appreciation. And I would stress out that we do listen to suggestions, and critics.
Hope this helps.
Samantha Goldflake - Director
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations
http://www.vstex.net
The blog post on Second
The blog post on Second Chaos: here it is.
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations
http://www.vstex.net
Sorry for comparing to WSE
Sorry for comparing to WSE ithink nobody deserves that ;)
Better comparsion is as you mention SLCAPEX, but they seem to have suffered from the aftermath of top-to-bottom regulation. A handfull of people don't agree with their decisions. And who is to blame the decisionmaker.
To my observation you started out as "the first community based" exchange", wich is great. In so case the community decides more or less the decisions, and can't blame you.
For example if you'd ask Iventures he'd say you lack balancesheet requirement, as a top-to-bottom structure you may or may not decide to just take his advice seriously and require such reporting. But a much wiser path would be to ask the community, that way they cannot blame you.
Likewise, with anything else, my idea of multiple listings as one...
It might be that i took your slogan too literally when i first saw it, it seems you're going away from community-based model to a management based model, a change wich seems strange to me, but ofcourse there are many different opinions about that.
Ise for example runs on a very much non-intervention policy, and in turn it has become the least controverisal exchange accourding to slnewspaper.com.
My conclusion is, the non-intervention model seems to create less trouble. (not that i've heard any troubling news about vstex so far, except things that are not in the control of the exchange such as avc, or more recent the csl merger... those are shareholder<->ceo issues wich exchange can't do anything about, so i won't call them controversial).
The blog post I mentioned
The blog post I mentioned earlier (and that I'm still writing as of now) should explain everything. At least, it will be our view of things. (Edit:) here it is (End edit)
I won't add much here, 'cause I hope that blog post will give a lot of details on the issue. About the ISE, hat off to them, however it must be noted that we started like that. It would have been interesting to see the ISE in our shoes, dealing with Jasper Tizzy and the others.
That doesn't matter anyways, the ISE is the ISE and we are we.
Our slogan had to be intended literally. It didn't work out as intended. I reckon that some things in our communication should be adjusted/changed. As usual, we welcome every kind of input, from anyone.
Best regards,
Samantha Goldflake - Director
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations
http://www.vstex.net
OK Samantha/Andy
I hesitated before jumping into this back-and-forth. By virtue of this being a comment section, it's not meant to facilitate an extended discussion that this topic deserves. As a matter of neutrality, I highly suggest(read: hope) you begin a discussion thread on CAPEX to discuss this. But I need to point some things out:
1. VSTEX shareholders vote on companies in 'pending IPO' status. In this sense, it is a community exchange. No other exchange observes such a practice.
2. Have you been to a VSTEX shareholder meeting? I've been to several. Nobody really shows up. This implies apathy or a sense of disempowerment. I'll point to the CSV/CSL merger that I have strongly objected to on the basis that it makes a clear mockery of 'non-owner(something of a misnomer) shares.' "We're holding a vote. But I get to vote. Because I've already approved of this, I'm going to vote yes until you can tell me why I shouldn't." Guys like me could go combing for violations to policy, but what would that lead to? A request that Skip reconsider. If he refused? Ultimately delistment. Then shareholders would have nada. Why?
#3: Four exchanges listing the same company would be in no more of a position that regulate company owners than 1 currently is. If you can outline how 4 exchanges could seize that company's assets that exist far beyond the exchange into the virtual or real world, I'd be most intrigued.
4. There's only one WSE. And nobody else's decisions comes even close to paralleling the actions occurring there. In SL finance, it's like calling someone 'Hitler.'
5. There are companies on SLCAPEX that would have never been accepted under VSTEX policy and vice versa. Companies go to the exchange with the policy that best suits their agenda.
6. I've made this point before, but I will again: AVC was listed on VSTEX. One of their primary assets was on ANCAPEX(WJUV). Monkey Canning successfully sold his personal interest in WJUV to Tyrian Camilo with, I would assume, IntLibber Brautigan's administrative consent. This transaction occurred while AVC was halted pending an investigation. I have yet to hear Intlibber justify this decision.
7. For the VSTEX personally? I noted in another article that my first real action as a shareholder involved a heated exchange between myself and Samantha regarding SLC. I don't agree with everything they did, but realize that I was pretty much on my own. The AVC committee? I volunteered as an objective party, but nobody seemed willing to do it. We fell to shambles when the chairman selected by the AVC shareholders, Ronisu Rotaru, vanished. AVC shareholders probably knew that the day before he vanished, he was removed from his position as CEO because, um, he disappeared for great periods of time. He disappeared on day 2. By day 4/7, he had not been heard from. Our committee couldn't be organized due to the timezone differences, so I essentially went rogue and performed the investigation myself, with Aldon Huffhines/Hynes reviewing a different draft of the report as an objective observer. Point? I've yet to see many shareholders taking the fight to VSTEX or the companies. I believe shareholders to be intelligent people. And I believe shareholders have rights (even if the overarching rights/arguably the only enforceable right is to immediately walk away). But they like the prospects of big gains, no regulation, being a day trader, beating the market, wtf ever else you want to call it. I call it delusional.
People invoke shareholder's rights when they are not getting their way, not when something is clearly wrong that they couldn't ostensibly benefit from.
If Kejo Merlin,Investor Merlin,Jasper Tizzy, Monkey Canning, and Nicholas Portocarrero started a new company as themselves (as opposed to an unverifiable number of alts out there) and got it listed on an exchange and made lots of promises, there's a better-than-average chance their IPO would sell and they'd hit the market. In my opinion, this problem rests at the heart of the problem and takes precedent over systematic regulation of exchanges.
Anyway, I hope you'll take these into consideration and start a thread on CAPEX or whatnot. There's value in the discussion, but it needs to be done in a place that could facilitate it. My one suggestion Andy, is not to dominate the discussion. That ISE poll became an Andy v. Duke session and it turns people the hell off.
Tolstoy eat your heart out. o.O
Good post Konner. I'll have
Good post Konner. I'll have to answer you here, to avoid fragmentation. Then, I would like to keep the debate open somewhere else. The SLCAPEX forums are a viable option, I am a poster there. Also, there are the VSTEX forums. If Andy Grant wants to keep going on, I'll let him decide the ground to fight on (smiles).
Now on to my answer:
1. I am not familiar with the ISE, but they seem to have a community vote too, for IPO approvals. See this thread on their forum. I don't know if that's common practice there, or if they did that since the beginning.
Anyway, since we have been doing this forever, I have a few comments to make. First, the party of inactive, unconcerned investors has been growing over time. We came to the point when we had to lower the requirements. With a VSTEX Community vote for IPOs there are 3 possible outcomes:
- A majority of "Yes" = IPO approved
- A majority of "No" = IPO rejected
- Not enough people voting = IPO rejected
At the beginning we required a vote from at least the 50% + 1 of our Community in order to call a vote valid. Later, we had to lower the requirement to 1/3 rounded down, since less and less people were using their power to vote.
The second issue, someone was always trying to game the system through the use of alt accounts. That forced us to change our rules accordingly and forbid such practices.
2. I don't know the reasons (though I could make some guesses), however less and less people are keeping up with their portfolios. I also believe that there are a lot of "microaccounts" belonging to people who tried the system for a while and then never came back. I myself I know a few people that deposited amounts ranging from 1L$ to 50L$, bought and eventually sold a few shares, then nothing else.
I am not commenting on the CSV/CSL merger, I can only anticipate that yes, we'll have new specific rules for mergers. We're also going to change a few things in other areas, including shareholders rights in company meetings/votings.
3. I already stated our position about multiple listings. To expand, I would add that every exchange has its own set of rules and requirements. What's acceptable for an exchange could be a major violation on another one. Rather than going towards multiple listings, in order to facilitate investors that would then be able to use their preferred platform, I would go towards harmonization and standardization of the many exchanges rules and features.
4. Of course, there's only one WSE. I didn't like the comparison with us; it must be noted that Andy Grant was so kind to meet me on that concern.
5. "Companies go to the exchange with the policy that best suits their agenda." I agree with all of my heart, here.
6. Only thinking about AVC gives me an headache. I should go over the documents once again (and I won't do that) but I seem to recall that WJUV was changing hands while we were halting AVC. But what about ESN (Electronic Shopping Network)? That was an AVC venture, later lost in the ANCAPEX hard drive failure (and still under recovery, for what I know). I point you to < a href="http://www.slnn.com/index.php?SCREEN=article&about=avc-turmoil">SLNN. Read the comments. Sadly the ESN announcement is no longer available.
With AVC we have locked AVC assets held on our exchange. We have gone through the investigation. After doing all the legwork for the shareholders meetings and presenting them the investigation results, we invited them to band together and do whatever it was necessary in order to claim the assets on the other exchanges (we knew only of the ACE) and eventually reform the company. AVC shareholders never even came close to that.
That's why, after a while, we had no choice but splitting the VSTEX held AVC assets amongst shareholders (with the exclusion of ex AVC managers). That's about it. I don't recall any further statement from the ACE on the issue. Both WJUV and ESN were struck by their data failure. The major AVC shareholder ScottyBig Oh is nowhere to be seen. He also was CEO of the VSTEX listed BNF. The company was delisted a while ago because of the CEOs prolonged absence, without any kind of contact.
Maybe one day we'll know what happened to WJUV and ESN. I know we did our part.
7. "People invoke shareholder's rights when they are not getting their way, not when something is clearly wrong that they couldn't ostensibly benefit from." Here too, I agree 101%.
Samantha Goldflake - Director
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations
http://www.vstex.net
Correction
Just to make sure nobody misunderstands me the way you seem to have Konner, you said:
"Four exchanges listing the same company would be in no more of a position that regulate company owners than 1 currently is. If you can outline how 4 exchanges could seize that company's assets that exist far beyond the exchange into the virtual or real world, I'd be most intrigued."
now compare that to what i said, precise quotation:
"My point beeing having thesame company listed on several exchanges gives the shareholder a way to decide wich exchange he/she likes best."
Does there seem to be a prety critical difference there ?
I'm speaking of protecting the shareholder from the exchanges (by giving him/her the choice of choosing the exchange that fits him best regardless of company), and you try to focus on what does not exist in what i said, and something that cannot be done in sl wich is to regulate the companies.
Now that you better understand what i ment, you can perhaps make up your mind wether you agree or disagree.
Keep in mind regulation cannot exist in sl, there is no but-but, cannot be done at all.
Heh
"My point beeing having thesame company listed on several exchanges gives the shareholder a way to decide wich exchange he/she likes best."
I got that. It won't work because of the differences in listing policies of the different exchanges. It won't address issues that are of far importance right now. And there are far more practical ways of determining which exchange you like best.
Oh and Andy, condescending doesn't work on me. This may be an approach best reserved for dealing with your fellow graduates of Harvard Business School. As I already said, I hope you'll take this discussion and open it up for debate in a venue better able to facilitate it.
km
VSTex has a forum now.
Just to add, VSTex has a forum now, All Andy has to do is sign up at any VSTex ATM, by typing in Reset Password and he is in.
Bart Heart
Sarah Nerd's Freebie Penis
LOL Bart
Sarah Nerd´s freebie penis is denfinatly a huge one, it was my first SL penis long time ago when i first joined SL and still "use" him, every girl was happy with him until now!!
Then i saw her name at WSE, first i thought it´s a sex business company lol
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